Should Canada Deploy the DART to Africa?

[Smallc]

Ebola doesn't spread easily at all. As Argus says, military duty comes with risk, as you already know. Send them in.

[Argus]

So you now wish to provide security, that the various Governments haven't requested, in a plague ravaged, backwards region........

The Americans are certainly taking a security element along with them. But... what do THEY know anyway...

No organized medical group? What does our Federal Government employ currently via the PHAC?

Are those doctors who can be deployed overseas? I don't think so.

[dre]

So you would send Canadian army engineers into a quarantined region……..I trust you’ll lead them with your swagger stick over the top.

Nope... as usual folks will "lead" military deployments... from their couches.

[Smallc]

We have a military for a host of reasons, just one of which being so we can sit on our couches. Risk is part of their job.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Smallc

[Derek 2.0]

Ebola doesn't spread easily at all. As Argus says, military duty comes with risk, as you already know. Send them in.

How many health professionals have been infected already? Military duty does come with risk, but leadership ( both civilian and military) attempt to mitigate it as much as possible........and "send them in"? They have not been requested, nor offered, by any of the nations in the region.

[Smallc]

Send them in if requested, is what I meant. You're playing with semantics.

[Derek 2.0]

The Americans are certainly taking a security element along with them. But... what do THEY know anyway...

The American army also fields renowned experts in the field of infectious disease.

Are those doctors who can be deployed overseas? I don't think so.

Why not? Canadian healthcare professionals go overseas to provide treatment and care all the time……there are already Canadians in Africa doing such work.

[Derek 2.0]

Send them in if requested, is what I meant. You're playing with semantics.

I'm not playing any games........I feel sending members of the Canadian Forces overseas to contend with Ebola, when they’re not trained nor equipped to do so, is wanton negligence, to say nothing of a misdirection of resources……..the millions that would be spent to deploy DART would be far better directed to groups like MSF and/or the Red Cross, that are already there and employ professionals that are trained and practice medicine in such fields.

[Derek 2.0]

Nope... as usual folks will "lead" military deployments... from their couches.

Indeed, and context is needed.....several thousand Africans have died from Ebola, how many 100s of thousands die each year in sub-Saharan Africa from HIV/AIDS? Yet no calls to send in the army.

[Army Guy]

I think there is a huge misconception on what Dart can do and what they can not do, to start with the Dart is not a ready maned unit, filled with guys with specfic training but rather one that is made up on the fly of various people with a broad level of training such as Combat Engineers to run the ROPU unit for water, heavy equipment guys for construction, military doctors and nurses and medics.....lets not forget sometimes pilots stripped from units across the country, mostly from CFB Petawawa.....

There is no speciality training involved in most case and certainly none that involves operating in a CBRN enviroment , certainly not a deadly enviroment such as ebola there main focus is reponding to diasters, hurricanes, tidal waves, earth quakes ...they are there to offer some services that may be indemand....providing clean drinking water, treating trama patients, limited constuction, setting up a small camp provide some shelter....those types of things....normally there is a security element in the back ground

But ebola and similar infections is way out of there league. Yes they have been exposed to other diseases , those that already have a vacine and can be controled without putting CF pers lives at risks.....Your also ghiving our medical staff to much credit, most "NOT" all of the CF's doctors and nusrses are GP's they deal with colds sprains, broken bones etc.....there are a handful of surgons, but most of those were Reserves, those guys were top notch but i'm sure if you asked them about ebola they would say they don't have the training nor equipment to deal with it....

Even the US military has a specialized unit for this type of problem.....plus they have the facilities which we do not....there is no funding for that....

they can barely put out a surgical hospital and everything that needs , never mind what is required to handle ebola....same goes for DART....

Yes there are risks to being in the military, but they provide extensive training for those risks ...sure we get sot at but the sdds where less than 25 % that was going to happen.....ebola has a much greater risk, plus we have no training , no protective equipemnt , and the chances of dieing from it are alot greater.....I get it that is what you pay us for....not so much....there is a limit to the danger that soldiers will expose themselfs to.....might as well strap on a vest full of explosives....

[overthere]

Nope... as usual folks will "lead" military deployments... from their couches.

Military deployment?

DART water engineers need not kill anybody... it is a humanitarian deployment, in support of a medical crisis intervention. Controlling this epidemic will require many support elements, and clean water on a larger scale than pallets of bottled water is required. We have the capability. There is a need, What is the problem?

Why do you hate freedom?

[Argus]

Indeed, and context is needed.....several thousand Africans have died from Ebola, how many 100s of thousands die each year in sub-Saharan Africa from HIV/AIDS? Yet no calls to send in the army.

There is a measure of self-protection involved here that you people don't seem to be considering. Ebola was a fairly rare virus which cropped up in a few dozen or even a couple of hundred cases here and there. If the CDCs prediction comes true, however and it winds up infecting over a million people there is a vastly increased chance for this to spread beyond Africa and a vastly increased chance for the virus to mutate into something which can be more easily transferable. In other words, if the world doesn't get control of this thing soon we might well see even more virulent outbreaks taking place over here in a year or two...

[Argus]

I'm not playing any games........I feel sending members of the Canadian Forces overseas to contend with Ebola, when they’re not trained nor equipped to do so, is wanton negligence, to say nothing of a misdirection of resources……..the millions that would be spent to deploy DART would be far better directed to groups like MSF and/or the Red Cross, that are already there and employ professionals that are trained and practice medicine in such fields.

From what I've read I doubt more that 1% of the medical people addressing this virus are in any way experts trained to deal specifically with viruses. They're ordinary doctors and nurses and medics. As for equipment, aren't WE sending such equipment to Africa? How then can you say we don't have it?

[bush_cheney2004]

What is the Public Health Agency of Canada's projections for Ebola and risk to Canada ? Wouldn't that influence the decision to engage with Canadian resources beyond humanitarian aid to impacted African nations ?

[Derek 2.0]

But ebola and similar infections is way out of there league. Yes they have been exposed to other diseases , those that already have a vacine and can be controled without putting CF pers lives at risks.....Your also ghiving our medical staff to much credit, most "NOT" all of the CF's doctors and nusrses are GP's they deal with colds sprains, broken bones etc.....there are a handful of surgons, but most of those were Reserves, those guys were top notch but i'm sure if you asked them about ebola they would say they don't have the training nor equipment to deal with it....

Exactly, there is a big difference between providing primary care in a disaster zone, and working in a quarantine environment……

[Derek 2.0]

There is a measure of self-protection involved here that you people don't seem to be considering. Ebola was a fairly rare virus which cropped up in a few dozen or even a couple of hundred cases here and there. If the CDCs prediction comes true, however and it winds up infecting over a million people there is a vastly increased chance for this to spread beyond Africa and a vastly increased chance for the virus to mutate into something which can be more easily transferable. In other words, if the world doesn't get control of this thing soon we might well see even more virulent outbreaks taking place over here in a year or two...

How many Canadians have been infected with Ebola versus HIV/AIDS?

[Derek 2.0]

From what I've read I doubt more that 1% of the medical people addressing this virus are in any way experts trained to deal specifically with viruses. They're ordinary doctors and nurses and medics. As for equipment, aren't WE sending such equipment to Africa? How then can you say we don't have it?

On the inverse, for obvious reasons, healthcare workers are the most at risk to contract Ebola…….You wish to place our men and women in uniform in an environment that they are not trained to operate, and risk exposing them to a virus with a very high mortality rate…….

[Smallc]

That's why you send a field hospital. They are trained to operate in such an environment.

[Derek 2.0]

What is the Public Health Agency of Canada's projections for Ebola and risk to Canada ? Wouldn't that influence the decision to engage with Canadian resources beyond humanitarian aid to impacted African nations ?

Far less then other viruses.........thats not to say we shouldn't help, but like the reductions in HIV/AIDS in Africa, such aide was rendered through government and non-government professionals......not the military.

[Derek 2.0]

That's why you send a field hospital. They are trained to operate in such an environment.

No they're not........myself and Army Guy are not making this stuff up as we go along

[Army Guy]

From what I've read I doubt more that 1% of the medical people addressing this virus are in any way experts trained to deal specifically with viruses. They're ordinary doctors and nurses and medics. As for equipment, aren't WE sending such equipment to Africa? How then can you say we don't have it?

Just because the some one with in the nation is sending it does not mean that DND has it or are familar with working with it....

[Derek 2.0]

Just because the some one with in the nation is sending it does not mean that DND has it or are familar with working with it....

Exactly......I see no benefit, but lots of risk, in sending the CF to contend with something they are not prepared for.

[Smallc]

No they're not........myself and Army Guy are not making this stuff up as we go along

No but you are speaking from an area where you don't have expertise (what hospitals can and can't do)...not so from my end.

[Army Guy]

That's why you send a field hospital. They are trained to operate in such an environment.

A field hospital is a collection of tents, surgons, doctors and various medical techs, they are there to process battle field cas...it's a collection of tents and medical sea cans.....they are not set up to contain or treat ebola.....US military has special units for this, that are tied to their national control centers....they would not have any usefull medical aid to offer other than making patients comfortable and watch them die....how is that useful....How is that a good use of resources.....

Now if containment would be through military force then yes, Canada could send in troops.....

[Derek 2.0]

No but you are speaking from an area where you don't have expertise (what hospitals can and can't do)...not so from my end.

I'm not a healthcare professional, my wife is though (and has worked with MSF, prior to formation of dentists without borders), but like Army Guy have received rudimentary training for such environments, well understanding what our Forces can and can not do……