GostHacked Posted March 27, 2015 Report Posted March 27, 2015 No, Saudi Arabia is just responding to the overthrow of the Yemen government. Iran is backing and funding the militia that's responsible. Why can't you accept that? Why do you always give Iran a pass? So if the CIA funds something, you really take offense to it. But when Iran does it, you make every excuse in the book to give them a pass. You're a complete and utter hypocrite. So why is Iran helping in Iraq, but not helping in Yemen? Quote
Shady Posted March 27, 2015 Report Posted March 27, 2015 So why is Iran helping in Iraq, but not helping in Yemen? They're not "helping" Iraq, they're concerned about ISIS more than they care about Iraq. They don't want ISIS on their border. They're not helping in Yemen because the militia group there is backed and funded by them. They have two seperate interests. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 27, 2015 Report Posted March 27, 2015 That is the point Ghost the flippity floppity of the US foreign policy. hat flippity floppity is classic failed Barry Obama foreign policy. Never in the history of US foreign policy has someone been such an idiot and failed to understand the basic rule that the enemy of your enemy can still be your enemy. He was warned repeatedly by German, Israeli,Egyptian, intelligence agencies not to take sides and not to arm either Sunni or Shiite extremists and he ignored his allies and will leave as his legacy in foreign policy the creation of a leadership vacuum leading to permanent instability and civil war in Libya, Yemen, Syria, Iraq and Ukraine. Nobel peace prize winner. Right. Speaking of idiotic foreign policy, remind us again what Bush was doing in Iraq. Quote
GostHacked Posted March 27, 2015 Report Posted March 27, 2015 They're not "helping" Iraq, they're concerned about ISIS more than they care about Iraq. They don't want ISIS on their border. They're not helping in Yemen because the militia group there is backed and funded by them. They have two seperate interests. Actually they are all part of the same interest. Quote
Big Guy Posted March 28, 2015 Author Report Posted March 28, 2015 This war in Yemen is slowly starting to change the whole script. Finally, the West decided to not get involved in that little war so the Saudi's had to start to get their hands dirty. Egypt has also shown to be prepared to get involved. IT'S ABOUT TIME !!!!!! The Saudi's are about 6 months from having the bomb. They already have all the components and all they have to do is put them together. Iran is a little longer away (although both the Saudi's and Iran may already have one). This is finally showing itself to be what it is - a civil war between Sunni and Shiite Arabs. Let them straighten out their own problems and Israel can then deal with the results when a winner remains. As I have often posted here; Get a map of the Middle East designating Sunni and Shiite populated areas. Get a map of the geopolitical boundaries of the Middle East - superimpose one over the other and surprise, surprise - you see the areas of conflict. It is the West which created these artificial political boundaries. Now the people who actually live there will make their own boundaries. How many times do we have to be told to get the H*** out of their and let them solve their own problems? Oh yes - What happens if/when an American or Canadian airplane goes down in Assad land? Why is Canada the only member of the coalition of the dumb who are following the USA into Syria? We are being played like a fine fiddle!! Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Shady Posted March 28, 2015 Report Posted March 28, 2015 This war in Yemen is slowly starting to change the whole script. Finally, the West decided to not get involved in that little war so the Saudi's had to start to get their hands dirty. Egypt has also shown to be prepared to get involved. IT'S ABOUT TIME !!!!!! The Saudi's are about 6 months from having the bomb. They already have all the components and all they have to do is put them together. Iran is a little longer away (although both the Saudi's and Iran may already have one). This is finally showing itself to be what it is - a civil war between Sunni and Shiite Arabs. Let them straighten out their own problems and Israel can then deal with the results when a winner remains. As I have often posted here; Get a map of the Middle East designating Sunni and Shiite populated areas. Get a map of the geopolitical boundaries of the Middle East - superimpose one over the other and surprise, surprise - you see the areas of conflict. It is the West which created these artificial political boundaries. Now the people who actually live there will make their own boundaries. How many times do we have to be told to get the H*** out of their and let them solve their own problems? Oh yes - What happens if/when an American or Canadian airplane goes down in Assad land? Why is Canada the only member of the coalition of the dumb who are following the USA into Syria? We are being played like a fine fiddle!! No the Saudi's aren't 6 months away from the bomb. But they, Egypt and others will certainly want them if Iran goes nuclear. Iran's proxy war in Yemen is backfiring. Quote
Rue Posted March 28, 2015 Report Posted March 28, 2015 No on is really sure what motivated George Bush Jr. to go into Iraq on Guard. One popular belief is that he went in to finish what his father started and regretted not doing and that was removing Sadaam Hussein. If you believe that version. Hussein was seen asa rogue puppet who turned on his handlers and had to be removed as sign to other potential puppets thinking of doing the same. Oer the years Gamel Abnel Nasser,Ghaddafi, General Noriega, General Gustav Pinoche, Battista in the Dominican Republic, on and on were all CIA propped dictators. The Soviets had their proxy puppets and so did the French, Chinese,British, etc. The US was not the first foreign power to topple a rogue puppet by any means. Today for example China'economy would collapse if it did not prop the dictators in Angola.Mozambique, Sudan and Iran. The French traditionally have continued to play a role in protecting certain corrupt French leaders. Mugabe of Zimbabwe certainly turned on Britain. Nigeria has always tried to be friendly to Holland because of the huge investments Shell Oil has in it. That is the most probable explanation. That and the Haliburton connection. When Hussein was propped in Iraq by the US in those days his handlers were Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Chaney working for Bush Sr. Then when Bush Jr. came in so did they. The only entity that has benefitted from Iraq is Haliburton the corporation both Rumslf and Chaney worked for, and procured trillions in contracts to rebuild the country. The very bizarre thing is the oil which everyone thought was the key, is going to China. China is the one getting all the Iraqi oil these days not the US. China depends on the oil and natural gas from both Iran and Iraq more heavily than the US. Its certainly not going to the European Union. Also Libyan oil is not increased in production as many thought it would be and its China moving in on it, not Italy, Fracne and Britain as everyone stated. Its hard to say the true motive behind the agendas we are told. I mean its easy to say Bush Jr. avenged Bush Sr. over the Gulf war and finished what Pa Bush started however Pa Bush nad Jr. Bush we know were themselves puppets in the complex oil cabal and the oil cabal is not easy to define. At one point OPEC and its head country Saudi Arabi controlled world oil prices, and one explanation is the US went into Iraq as a response to Iran rejecting the US dollar as the tradecurrency for world oil and a sign to Iranto back down over trying to tak over OPEC and this was done to placate Saui Arabia and the UAE incensed at Hussein for invading Kuwait their sister monarchy. What is also interesting is during that Iraq-Iran War,the British, French, Germans,Russians, Chinese, North Koreans sold weapons to both Iraq and Iran while Israel supported indirectly Iran. Israel supported Iran as a lesser of two evils at that time, but also infruiriated Iran and Turkey as well as Hussein by openly supporting the Kurds. In fact the eventual turning on Israel by Turkey which was one its ally came about because they would not stop supporting the kurds. Then again Israel has supported Armenia for the same reason it did the Kurds and this further pissed off Turkey. Its a complex mess.Britiain always from the get go felt Hussein was a rogue. Britain has always supported the monarchies it placed in Jordan, Iraq,Kuwait, UAE and Saudi Arabia and has considered the governments post marchy in Iraq to be riff raff. Bottom line is conflicts mutate as they grow in size and spread and so do the constellation of alliances and motives intertwined with them. Yemen right now blew up for several reasons.First and foremost Obama's policy on Yemen allowed Iran and Saudi Arabia to both flood it with Sunni and Shiite extremists.Obama bragged to the world how he was able to get Sunnis and Shiites to live together in Yemen in perfect harmony and how this would be his model for the rest of the Middle East. He was and remains a complete idiot incapable of grasping that the Shiite Sunni conflict has gone on as long as the conflict between Islam and both Christianity and Judaism and its even more intense. The only thing that kept Saudi Arabia and Iran from their war was Israel, the US and Egypt. When Obama turned on all 3, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Israel and sided with the Muslim Brotherhood the enemy of all 3,it signalled the Shiite extremists in Lebanon and Iran to take advantage of that schism and move into Yemen, Bahrain and agitate through Hamas. That vacuum now has forced the hand of not just Israel over Iran but now Saudi Arabia. The UAE and Kuwait will engage in the war with Saudi Arabia while Egypt and Israel assist from the sidelines keeping an eye on Hamas, ISIL, Hezbollah and Iran all at the same time. All that stops a complete melt down is Egypt and Israel. The only positive things to keep in mind are that Putin has told Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Israel he will remain quiet on Syria now that the Americans are assisting Assad by going after ISIL. Putin is offering all three indirect support against Obama and so has China. In fact China signed a military agreement with Israel which caused major problems for Hezbollah and Iran since China is still anally of Iran but has made it clear it is concerned with its own internal Muslim extremists being funded by Hezbollah and Iran. Putin has always been obsessed with Sunni extremists in Chechnya who he considers just an externsion of Al Quaeda who interestingly were always supported and financed by Saudi Arabia but were considered an enemy of Egypt and Israel. Saudi Arabia like the US has for years played both sides of the equation hoping to be allied with two enemies at the same time as the US tries now. It does not work.As the Egyptians and Israelis warned, there are no allies in the Middle East, none. You are alone. If there is an alliance it is changes as quickly as the sand dunes in the desert. Obama does not grasp that. He's triggered in his latest rush to sign a deal with Iran a greenlight not to reign them in and they will use that weakness, that need for a deal to wage wr in Yemen, Syria, Iraq. This will not end until Obama is gone and Republican President comes back in who restores the US Alliance with Egypt,SA, UAE, Kuwait, Israel and Jordan and detaches itself from Turkey and Ian. Turkey is now facing an economic melt down as Erdogan like Morsi in Egypt has destroyed its economy not having a clue how to manage it. Acpups d'états in Turkey by the military is quite possible and if that happens it will go pro Israel-Egypt and that will put a big thorn In Iran's back side and help stabilize things just like the military coups did in Egypt. Since Egypt had its coups Hamas has been paralyzed effectively by them and their intervention was the key to ending the last clash with Israel. Jordan is another volatile area. The Muslim Brotherhood its no.1 opposition agitates and calls for the end of its monarchy and this development defies analysis because its militants are Sunni extremist but favour Iran in Iraq and Syria. Quote
GostHacked Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 Seems like people agree with me, when I said the US is using Iran and Saudi Arabia against each other. Quote
Big Guy Posted March 29, 2015 Author Report Posted March 29, 2015 To GostHacked - I am not sure that America is orchestrating this mess. I do not think that it planned to be in this ridiculous position. I do agree with you that currently, in Yemen, Iran and Saudi are fighting a proxy war. The danger (or probability) is that it can become a hot war at any time. I have been watching the Sunday morning politico shows and almost all commentators are commenting on the strangeness (stupidity) of the position that the Americans are in; In negotiations with Iran to stop the development of a nuclear bomb, fighting along side with Iran in Iraq and Syria and on the opposite side of Iran in Yemen. You really cannot follow this war without a scorecard and a daily update of who is on whose side. It really would be humorous if it wasn't that Canada (me too America) if following the USA into another war of stupidity as a member of the coalition of the dumb. We are being played like ... Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 29, 2015 Report Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) ....I have been watching the Sunday morning politico shows and almost all commentators are commenting on the strangeness (stupidity) of the position that the Americans are in; In negotiations with Iran to stop the development of a nuclear bomb, fighting along side with Iran in Iraq and Syria and on the opposite side of Iran in Yemen. Not so strange....the U.S. did the same thing during the Cold War while negotiating strategic arms limitations treaties with the Soviet Union. Proxy wars raged around the globe. Also not surprising....Canada does not lead in such matters...it follows. Edited March 29, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted March 30, 2015 Report Posted March 30, 2015 It is the West which created these artificial political boundaries. Now the people who actually live there will make their own boundaries. How many times do we have to be told to get the H*** out of their and let them solve their own problems? Is the boundary between the U.S. and Canada natural or artificial? Is there a river dividing the countries? A mountain range? Canadians and Americans don't spend a lot of time finding ways to slaughter each other. Or their own countrymen. Just look at these three relatively current stories, two actually posted within the past day on Yahoo: 3 suicide bombings target Shiite rebel mosques in Yemen Islamic State group beheads 8 Shiites in Syria's Hama Syrians flee Idlib, fearing government reprisals Is this typical of the news in the U.S. and Canada, emanating from our artificial borders? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Big Guy Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Posted March 30, 2015 To jbg - I do not understand the point you are making. Please expand. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
jbg Posted March 30, 2015 Report Posted March 30, 2015 To jbg - I do not understand the point you are making. Please expand. The U.S. and Canada's borders are as artificial as they come, yet we don't have the same levels of chaos and human misery. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Big Guy Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Posted March 30, 2015 But it is the citizens of the USA and Canada who negotiated and arrived at those borders. We are also very new nations. As I have tried to focus on before - these are ancient peoples unified by history, family, religion and culture. I cannot see how their imposed geographical borders are similar in any way with those of Canada/USA. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
jbg Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) But it is the citizens of the USA and Canada who negotiated and arrived at those borders. We are also very new nations. As I have tried to focus on before - these are ancient peoples unified by history, family, religion and culture. I cannot see how their imposed geographical borders are similar in any way with those of Canada/USA.Was a Canadian government at the Treaty of Ghent bargaining table in 1815? Just breathtaking. Even more breathtaking, was there a government of "Canada" at the time? Or are we referring to some conflation of Upper Canada, Lower Canada, New Brunswick (not sure what that was then called), and Hudson Bay Company/Rupert's Land/Northwest Territories? Edited April 8, 2015 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
GostHacked Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 The U.S. and Canada's borders are as artificial as they come, yet we don't have the same levels of chaos and human misery. Because the borders were negotiated between Canada and the US. Unlike most of the borders in the Middle East were made up by other nations like the UK. HUGE difference. Quote
Rue Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 Ghost Hacked what you said is illogical. The same colonialists who imposed and negotiated the borders in the Americas are the same colonials who negotiated the borders of Syria, Lebanon,Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Oil states.In fact the only state not negotiated by these colonialists was Israel's which came about de facto because of a war initiated by British and French created states to prevent one not created by the British of French, Your take on history is a tad selective and you missed the point again. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 7, 2015 Report Posted April 7, 2015 Ghost Hacked what you said is illogical. The same colonialists who imposed and negotiated the borders in the Americas are the same colonials who negotiated the borders of Syria, Lebanon,Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Oil states.In fact the only state not negotiated by these colonialists was Israel's which came about de facto because of a war initiated by British and French created states to prevent one not created by the British of French, Yes, as the International Boundary between most of Canada and the U.S. was negotiated by treaties between the U.S. and U.K., not Canada (e.g. Jay Treaty, London Convention, Oregon Treaty, etc.) . Alaska boundaries and other surveying tweaks came later. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted April 8, 2015 Report Posted April 8, 2015 Because the borders were negotiated between Canada and the US. Unlike most of the borders in the Middle East were made up by other nations like the UK. HUGE difference.Here's my (repeated) response but maybe you didn't see it: Was a Canadian government at the Treaty of Ghent bargaining table in 1815? Just breathtaking. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Rue Posted April 8, 2015 Report Posted April 8, 2015 Say JBG and Bush, why is it you 2 Yanks seem more aware of Canadian history than a Canadian. Stop that. I think you 2 imperialists are well aware Canada had no real foreign policy until Lester B. Pearson We were a Dominion for the longest time delegating out our highest court in the land and foreign policy to Britain. Canada actually embraced being a Dominion. It was only during WW1 when or Canadian Generals openly questioned how Britain was misusing our troops we decided to question our need to be independent and we were pretty much just following Britain until Lester B.Pearson not by coincidence a former diplomat and foreign Minister carved out a peace keeping role in the ME which made us for the first time distinct from the UK. We are interesting. We still welcome and want to emulate British military ties but our actual operations, uniforms, and techniques are more American than they are British. even the way we salute has become the Yank way with that side salute. Bah we need to get back to the rigid open palm. Good enough for Benny Hill, good enough for me. Quote
Big Guy Posted April 8, 2015 Author Report Posted April 8, 2015 So the USA has stuck its nose into the proxy war in Yemen between Saudi Arabia and Iran. The Americans are supplying arms to the Saudi's in their war in Yemen against Iranian interests. Meanwhile, the USA is providing air cover for Iranian ground troops in Iraq. It seems that nobody can keep track of who the good guys and the bad guys are - and Canada is getting caught up in this fiasco! Now the Saudi's are asking Pakistan to get involved in the war in Yemen while the Iranians are warning Pakistan not to do so. This has potential for an explosion and we are right in the middle. God bless America! God help Canada! Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
bush_cheney2004 Posted April 8, 2015 Report Posted April 8, 2015 God bless America! God help Canada! Well, to be fair, the USA also provides arms to Canada to bomb the bad guys aligned with the good guys. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Je suis Omar Posted April 8, 2015 Report Posted April 8, 2015 Eyeball these conflicts have no sides. Try start with that concept. Hard as it may be for your rigid conceptualization to conceive but these conflicts have no sides. There is no group to side with. Your need to define everything with a good guy and a bad guy and cheer the good guy makes it impossible for you to grasp what Yemen or the Middle East is about. Its not about right or wrong, Its about for the most part men, who think they are right trying to impose themselves on other men they think that are wrong. Why? Because like you they can only see black and white. The USA, the UK, France, ... meddling in (so sanitized a term for slaughter and plundering) the ME for over a century and you have the temerity to put forward these fatuous notions, Rue. The only meddling in the USA from Saudi Arabia nationals and what happens, Iraq and Afghanistan are destroyed. Your thinking can't even be described as black and white. It's simply black, your blind pointed support if the very people and countries who are to blame for this sordid nonsense, this inhuman carnage that has been wreaked upon the poor people of the ME. Quote
Je suis Omar Posted April 8, 2015 Report Posted April 8, 2015 Rue: No on is really sure what motivated George Bush Jr. to go into Iraq on Guard. In all that that rambled on and on, Rue, not a peep about how it was no different than what the Nazis did, the ultimate war crime, armed aggression against a sovereign nation, one that posed no danger to the USA. Then you sought to further provide cover for the USA war crimes in Panama and other countries where these villains have sought to rape and pillage. Have you ever considered compassion for your fellow human being? Quote
GostHacked Posted April 8, 2015 Report Posted April 8, 2015 (edited) Ghost Hacked what you said is illogical. The same colonialists who imposed and negotiated the borders in the Americas are the same colonials who negotiated the borders of Syria, Lebanon,Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Oil states.In fact the only state not negotiated by these colonialists was Israel's which came about de facto because of a war initiated by British and French created states to prevent one not created by the British of French, Your take on history is a tad selective and you missed the point again. Hmm so, we can trace much of the bull back to those colonial powers. Geeze, I wish I had said that somewhere else. Oh right, I did. Also, poo. Edited April 8, 2015 by GostHacked Quote
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