War Against ISIL

[dre]

Dre you really need to know when to move on, To come on this forum now and say its uncontraversia factl to state Iraq improved the standard of life for Iraqis under Hussein's regime is nothing more than drivel,. This posing as an Iraqi who lived under Hussein's era and did much better thanks to him, that comes from one, which fantasy of yours? What's it like coming on this board posing as an expert as to living under Iraq during Hussein's era, hmmmm?

The arrogance, the presumptive insights, they just never end.

Instead of spewing off about a subject you once again have no clue about-instead of trying to pass yourself off as someone who lived under Hussein-instead of trying o bluff your way through this forum relying on internet sites you think base your subjective opions, know when to quit and be quiet.

You have zero clue what happened under Hussein's regime. You rely on web site article you took out of context.

Your continued attempts to describe the Hussein regime as having brought stability and a better way of life for Iraqis speaks for itself. So do the attempts at baiting me.

Go give a lecture to the over 1 million Iraqis forced to flee Hussein's regime how progressive it was for them. Start in Toronto. I am sure they will appreciate your insights. Explain to them how you are a Jew and the stripping of citizenship from Jews of Iraq during his regime advanced their lives.

Bleating and wretching, No I call your comments feigning knowledge, Puffing and blowing postulations with zero basis.

Oh look! More bleating and wretching absent of any substantive argument.

I didnt rely on a single article... any other article that delves into Iraqs history will tell you the exact same thing. Saddam Hussein was a brutal murderous tyrant theres no question. But theres also no question that he modernized the country and its economy and its infrastructure throughout the 70's and 80's and raised the standard of life for your average Iraqi, and created political stability in a country that had seen coupe after coupe since the 1930's

Again... none of these claims are even contraversial, and they dont excuse any of the horrible shit Saddam did.

[jbg]

How about self determination as an idea. All of what I have seen as examples of outrageous behaviour is the RESULT of being told what to do and how to do it by outside forces. Even Bin Laden's weird declarations included - West - go home and let us make our own decisions. But of course, we know better than they do because we are superior (and we do need that oil).

This has always been an Arab problem. The rich Arab states are smart enough to get us in there spending lots of money on armaments and spilling a lot of our blood while they maintain that stranglehold with their monarchies.

Now that the West has shale oil, fracking and doubtless other unconventional oil sources and new production, we return the Arabs to the traditional way of life for which you say they hanker. Yes, dismantle the oil wells on the way out. Flatten the weaponry and refuse to sell parts for any weaponry that escapes destruction. Refuse to sell anything which they could not have gotten via marauding on the Silk Road back in Marco Polo's day. And facilitate the restoration of the caliphate.

Europe may be a bit inconvenienced from the lack of their oil but they're not supporting the West anyway. That way we give bin Ladin what he says is his way.

[GostHacked]

The coverage of Israel's and the U.S.'s relatively minor transgressions so drastically swamps that given to most countries.

Minor?

[jbg]

Minor?

Compared the mass beheadings that occur in that part of the world, yes.

[GostHacked]

Compared the mass beheadings that occur in that part of the world, yes.

Sure, trashing entire countries is not as bad as a few be-headings, got it.

[jbg]

Sure, trashing entire countries is not as bad as a few be-headings, got it.

600-700 in one shot by ISIS?

[GostHacked]

600-700 in one shot by ISIS?

Shock and awe? What about the thousands dead in Pakistan with the strikes on Al-Queda? Yeah I know 'collateral damage'. Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria Libya all now in turmoil due to aggression by the west. But you are right, minor compared to a few beheadings. Anyone care about Boko Harum anymore?

[dre]

Sure, trashing entire countries is not as bad as a few be-headings, got it.

Yup! A few beheadings is way worse than trashing a whole country and getting hundreds of thousands of people killed! LOL

Pure comedy.

Edited October 20, 2014 by dre

[overthere]

Shock and awe? What about the thousands dead in Pakistan with the strikes on Al-Queda? Yeah I know 'collateral damage'. Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria Libya all now in turmoil due to aggression by the west. But you are right, minor compared to a few beheadings. Anyone care about Boko Harum anymore?

If we're wagging war dicks here, how about those 8 million dead Iranians and Iraqis slaughtered in the 80s by the benevolent leaders Saddam and Khomeini in their wee border dispute?

Man those were the good old days!

[jbg]

Anyone care about Boko Harum anymore?

Thanks for reminding me. Our temple's rabbi mentioned that a few weeks ago, in the Rosh Hashonah services.

[jbg]

Man those were the good old days!

Puts the U.S. - Canadian border to shame.

[Big Guy]

If we're wagging war dicks here, how about those 8 million dead Iranians and Iraqis slaughtered in the 80s by the benevolent leaders Saddam and Khomeini in their wee border dispute?

Man those were the good old days!

Not exactly the "good old days" but the times where their periodic wars maintained a balance of power. Iran had been a puppet of the USA with a very close and friendly relationship with Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. When he was overthrown by the Islamists it became the enemy of USA controlled and supported Saddam. Every once in a while they did some culling of each others armies keeping each from becoming a real world threat.

Instead, now Western lives are being given up during periodic wars between these two groups.

We already sacrificed 158 of our youngest and bravest and $multi-billions while the Iranians sit back and develop their nuclear bomb.

We are being played like a fine fiddle.

[dre]

We already sacrificed 158 of our youngest and bravest and $multi-billions while the Iranians sit back and develop their nuclear bomb.

We are being played like a fine fiddle.

Can you imagine the absolutely giddy school-girl-ish jubilation on the faces of Khomenei, and Assad while they watch this all play out? Not just over this latest idiotic blunder, but the 2003 invasion as well.

For shia hard liners... Idiotic western politicians = Great success!

Edited October 23, 2014 by Michael Hardner
Removed image

[waldo]

If we're wagging war dicks here, how about those 8 million dead Iranians and Iraqis slaughtered in the 80s by the benevolent leaders Saddam and Khomeini in their wee border dispute?

Man those were the good old days!

8 million dead???... really? And hey now... what side did the U.S./Europe take and what role did they play in assisting/arming the 'good guy' Hussein, hey?

[bush_cheney2004]

The same side that Canada did.

[waldo]

hey now! Let's hear about all that Canadian siding with/assistance/arming of Hussein during the Iraq-Iran war...

[overthere]

Not exactly the "good old days" but the times where their periodic wars maintained a balance of power. Iran had been a puppet of the USA with a very close and friendly relationship with Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. When he was overthrown by the Islamists it became the enemy of USA controlled and supported Saddam. Every once in a while they did some culling of each others armies keeping each from becoming a real world threat.

Oops, typo on that, it was only one million dead in the longest conventional war of the 20th century. A million dead is a periodic cull? Border skirmish?

I did not know that.

I did know that the war began with Iraq invading Iran.

[waldo]

Oops, typo on that, it was only one million dead in the longest conventional war of the 20th century. A million dead is a periodic cull? Border skirmish?

I did not know that.

I did know that the war began with Iraq invading Iran.

you're doing this repeatedly... what's with taking a members name/post linkage out of your quotes? It's a nonsense practice that doesn't help discussion flow and/or participation.

[Big Guy]

That fiasco in Afghanistan keeps rearing its head every once in a while to remind us to think twice before participating in another expedition in the Middle East.

The USA has spent at least $7.6 billion in a counter-narcotics effort aimed at curbing and stopping opium cultivation in Afghanistan. Now it is reported that opium poppy cultivation in Afghanistan has hit a record-high.

Afghan farmers grew a record 209,000 hectares of opium poppy in 2013, up from the prior record in 2007 of 193,000 hectares, according to the latest statistics from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. The country’s opium poppy cultivation was valued at $3 billion in 2013 – a 50 percent increase from the previous year – as Afghanistan continues to produce nearly 90 percent of the world’s supply.

Even worse, these figures are projected to climb as security deteriorates in rural Afghanistan and eradication efforts lose steam.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/10/21/afghanistan-opiumrecord.html

So, 158 brave Canadians and $multi-billions of Canadian dollars later, the “scumbags and murderers” are still gaining strength, most little girls are not going to school and we have fighter jets going into Iraq.

I hope we get this one right.

[Big Guy]

With battles in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen ... Iran has been quietly working on its nuclear program and will probably soon declare that they are ready to join the nuclear table. The brighter folks in the West have seen that for any kind of solution for the $trillions that the West is pouring into the Middle East that Iran is the key. This former friend of the USA has been a pariah but now holds all the wild cards in the region.

I assume that the different nations in the West reviewed their approach in the Middle East, their unconditional support of Israel and their participation in trying to prop up corrupt governments. I think that Iran has decided that it will continue on its nuclear program since the focus has shifted to other priorities.

I believe that Iran has learned that it is far easier to get forgiveness than permission for nuclear capabilities - just like Israel did in the past. Ever since the 1950's Israel was stealing nuclear technology from the USA and Britain while they both chose to turn a "blind eye" to these thefts.

The West is quietly starting to court Iran by loosening sanctions;

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/10/boeing-sells-first-parts-iran-since-1979-20141022231229101691.html

I believe that the USA and the other nations are beginning to realize that Iran is the key to peace in the Middle East. The cost and advisability of unconditional support of Israel will have to be weighed against the possibility of an Iranian leadership of a peace in that region.

There is light at the end of the tunnel.

[jbg]

Not exactly the "good old days" but the times where their periodic wars maintained a balance of power. Iran had been a puppet of the USA with a very close and friendly relationship with Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. When he was overthrown by the Islamists it became the enemy of USA controlled and supported Saddam. Every once in a while they did some culling of each others armies keeping each from becoming a real world threat.

Instead, now Western lives are being given up during periodic wars between these two groups.

We already sacrificed 158 of our youngest and bravest and $multi-billions while the Iranians sit back and develop their nuclear bomb.

We are being played like a fine fiddle.

For a rare time we are not in total disagreement. Good work.

Frankly I think they should turn each other into nice parking lots.

[Rue]

_{Oh did I hear hat?}

_{Iranian leadership of peace in the region....uh right.}

_{Yes Iran the nation that equips Hamas, Hezbollah and props Assad. The regime that commits genocide against Kurds and posing as Iraqi soldiers wipes out thousands of Sunnis in Iraq as we speak.}

_{Right. There's a leader of peace.}

_{A nation that has murdered tens of thousands of its own citizens for being students and daring question the totalitarian religious extremism of its government, women who demand equality, gays (well golly gee they don't exist), trade unionists, Bahaiis, Christians, Jews, journalists.}

_{Right. There's a nation capable of leading us to peace.}

_{Light at the end of the tunne...uh no just a symptom of oxygen deprivation to the brain.}

Edited October 23, 2014 by Rue

[jbg]

_{Oh did I hear hat?}

_{Iranian leadership of peace in the region....uh right.}

_{Yes Iran the nation that equips Hamas, Hezbollah and props Assad. The regime that commits genocide against Kurds and posing as Iraqi soldiers wipes out thousands of Sunnis in Iraq as we speak.}

ISIS's caliph had some interesting ideas on pieces in the region.

[Big Guy]

So Canada has just finished our first air sortie on ISIS. It was deemed "successful" and our targets were destroyed. Apparently we got a dump truck and a couple of bulldozers. There was no mention if that construction equipment was left by the Americans or Canadians. We did in the past pour a whole lot of ($billions") in humanitarian and infrastructure aid in there so it was probably our stuff.

Not to worry. After we take out ISIS we can go back in and replace that equipment with more of our stuff - until the next civil war.

[jbg]

So Canada has just finished our first air sortie on ISIS. It was deemed "successful" and our targets were destroyed. Apparently we got a dump truck and a couple of bulldozers. There was no mention if that construction equipment was left by the Americans or Canadians. We did in the past pour a whole lot of ($billions") in humanitarian and infrastructure aid in there so it was probably our stuff.

Not to worry. After we take out ISIS we can go back in and replace that equipment with more of our stuff - until the next civil war.

Is there anything the Harper Government can do that would satisfy you?