Smallc Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 The New York situation is much more grey than the situation in Ferguson. I don't like what happened there, though I don't think it came from any intentional malice. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 Michael Brown is not only merely dead...he's really most sincerely and constitutionally dead: Constitutionally, "police officers are allowed to shoot under two circumstances," says criminologist David Klinger of the University of Missouri-St. Louis. The first circumstance is "to protect their life or the life of another innocent party" — what departments call the "defense-of-life" standard. The second circumstance is to prevent a suspect from escaping, but only if the officer has probable cause to think the suspect's committed a serious violent felony. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 The New York situation is much more grey than the situation in Ferguson. I don't like what happened there, though I don't think it came from any intentional malice. Yep....city will settle a wrongful death lawsuit for Garner. Ferguson was a police officer doing what he was trained to do. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 Michael Brown is not only merely dead...he's really most sincerely and constitutionally dead: Constitutionally, "police officers are allowed to shoot under two circumstances," says criminologist David Klinger of the University of Missouri-St. Louis. The first circumstance is "to protect their life or the life of another innocent party" — what departments call the "defense-of-life" standard. The second circumstance is to prevent a suspect from escaping, but only if the officer has probable cause to think the suspect's committed a serious violent felony. Stealing a handful of cigars, now there's a "serious violent felony" Quote
Smallc Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 Yep....city will settle a wrongful death lawsuit for Garner. Ferguson was a police officer doing what he was trained to do. Exactly. I'm not sure why people would pick Ferguson as their shining example of rampant racism. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 Exactly. I'm not sure why people would pick Ferguson as their shining example of rampant racism. And I'm not sure how people bring themselves to ignore racism. Perhaps it's insightful? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 I wonder why Michael Brown is...err...was racist towards shopkeepers and police officers ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 I wonder why Michael Brown is...err...was racist towards shopkeepers and police officers ? I dunno. Maybe he was a little pissed off at the racism against blacks. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 I dunno. Maybe he was a little pissed off at the racism against blacks. He likely grew up with it since he was born and raised in America Quote
Black Dog Posted December 12, 2014 Author Report Posted December 12, 2014 Why would anyone think I obsess over any specific topic when I contribute to virtually any topic which affects or influences this country's economy or budget? Oh, right, we're talking about a really dumb person. I forgot. For someone who thinks of himself as the smartest person in any room, you sure are ignorant of the fact that "obsessive" isn't the same thing as "exclusive", and that your posting habits would be well known to long time members of this board. Pretending otherwise is more insulting than any of your childish digs. Quote
Argus Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 So you're taking the word of the cop saying he didn't really break the law by choking him, even though the only mean who could really dispute that is dead. Then you're saying it didn't look like a choke hold to you, but in the same breath you're saying it could have had some impact on his breathing. Were you on the grand jury? No, but I'm taking the grand jury finding into account. When I first heard it I was surprised. It seemed clear to me that he ought to be indicted. Since them I've changed my mind based on new information, including the poor health of the man in question. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 You guys and your "strong arm robbery" crap. He stole a pack of smokes and shoved the clerk. He didn't even beat him or strike him once. He shoved the guy. He didn't even shove the guy hard enough to knock him to the ground. Yet we have Smallc yammering on about me engaging in hyperbole. Where are you on this one, hyperbole monitor? He didn't NEED to because he was a 6'5" 300 lb monster. Did you see him turn and stomp towards the clerk, apparently because the guy was still complaining. That's a guy who is righteous about the fact his bulk gives him the right to do whatever he wants and isn't about to take any crap from some small guy. If the clerk hadn't backed off he would have had his head handed to him. Thug, pure and simple. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 Yeah, no crap. He killed the guy. Of course he's going to say that. The coroner says being choked contributed to his death. I'll take the word of the medical examiner over the killer's. Do you understand the difference between 'contributed to' and 'caused'? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 For someone who thinks of himself as the smartest person in any room, I rarely make any such pretense. Of course, if you're the only other person there... well... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Black Dog Posted December 12, 2014 Author Report Posted December 12, 2014 (edited) I rarely make any such pretense. Of course, if you're the only other person there... well... Remember when you made this patently false claim? That was good times. What I don't do is angrily snipe and whine and call people names on a topic, on ANY topic, without seriously addressing the topic at hand. Almost as good as you pretending you're not a bigot. Anyway, I'm sure the mods will be along any day now on this so I'll just leave the inevitable last word to you. Edited December 12, 2014 by Black Dog Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 Just heard a news report that the shooting of the 12 year old boy in Cleveland has been ruled a homicide. Anybody who's seen the video could have probably figured that one out in about as long as the 2 seconds it took the cop to decide to shoot him. Quote
eyeball Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 Isn't it about time the Cop Talk was incorporated into school curricula? I think maybe even reciting something everyday during the Pledge of Allegiance and daily prayers would be a good idea. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Smallc Posted December 12, 2014 Report Posted December 12, 2014 So in the case where charges are warranted, it looks like they'll happen. Interesting. Quote
Argus Posted December 13, 2014 Report Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) Just heard a news report that the shooting of the 12 year old boy in Cleveland has been ruled a homicide. Anybody who's seen the video could have probably figured that one out in about as long as the 2 seconds it took the cop to decide to shoot him. Homicide does not mean murder. As we saw in the Garner case there are a limited number of choices for the coroner to select from. I mean, it's not natural causes, it's not an accident, it's not suicide. Technically, all killings of a person by a person are homicide. Thus the term "justifiable homicide." In the Cleveland case I doubt charges will be laid. You can criticize the officers for acting too quickly, but the kid looked older than he was and was carrying a gun (fake) which he took out of his pants as they stopped. Edited December 13, 2014 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
On Guard for Thee Posted December 13, 2014 Report Posted December 13, 2014 Homicide does not mean murder. As we saw in the Garner case there are a limited number of choices for the coroner to select from. I mean, it's not natural causes, it's not an accident, it's not suicide. Technically, all killings of a person by a person are homicide. Thus the term "justifiable homicide." In the Cleveland case I doubt charges will be laid. You can criticize the officers for acting too quickly, but the kid looked older than he was and was carrying a gun (fake) which he took out of his pants as they stopped. At least you get that homicide does not necessarily mean murder. This case has not been deemed justifiable, only homicide. Maybe the kid looked older to you but he didn't to me. But it's obvious what side you come down on. This cop also has a history of incompetence. The video is about as obvious a case of overreaction you will likely ever see. Quote
jbg Posted December 13, 2014 Report Posted December 13, 2014 Oh I know, they had already talked to him for about 20 minutes, but they should have talked longer, like it's a debating club or something. There is NO debate. And yes, they could have used other means, like a taser or something, provided that that didn't kill him as well. See Vancouver airport.Often many of my American friends suggest tazers. I always give a recitation of Vancouver Airport. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
WestCoastRunner Posted December 13, 2014 Report Posted December 13, 2014 Often many of my American friends suggest tazers. I always give a recitation of Vancouver Airport. Honestly, that's all you can come up with. Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
On Guard for Thee Posted December 13, 2014 Report Posted December 13, 2014 Often many of my American friends suggest tazers. I always give a recitation of Vancouver Airport. How many cops did it take to tazer him 5 times to death? If cops are bent on killing someone I suppose they will take off their badges and slash the victim until they bleed to death. Quote
WestCoastRunner Posted December 13, 2014 Report Posted December 13, 2014 17 people have died in Canada since 2001 after stun-guns were used by police. 530 in the u.s. since 2001 http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=4ccf8040-2666-4463-b73c-9e531dab20e8 http://www.infowars.com/more-than-530-taser-related-deaths-in-u-s-since-2001/ We know that the U.S. is approximately 10x the population of Canada. Go figure..... Quote I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 13, 2014 Report Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) More tasers were adopted by US police departments than in Canada, and I suspect earlier as well. In Ontario, supervisors and special units got them, not all police officers. http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/ontario-to-allow-police-officers-to-carry-stun-guns-1.1428226 Stun guns were very popular in the 80's....I bought my girlfriend one and her brother insisted that she stun him to see what it was like. ZZZZotttt !! ....He never asked her to do it again. Edited December 13, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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