eyeball Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 So you want to stop trading with almost the entire world, and arrest their leaders? I'm sure that'll work out swell. Sacrifice worked out swell when our grandfathers stood up to tyranny. They'd be puking in their cups if they could see what we've made of their legacy. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Shady Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 Sacrifice worked out swell when our grandfathers stood up to tyranny. They'd be puking in their cups if they could see what we've made of their legacy. You mean our grandfathers that traded with countries that used torture? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 Sacrifice worked out swell when our grandfathers stood up to tyranny. They'd be puking in their cups if they could see what we've made of their legacy. Are you kidding? "Our grandfathers" did lots of things to women and "visible minorities" that would make "torture" a blessing in comparison. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 You mean our grandfathers that traded with countries that used torture? Nope, the grandfathers we recently celebrated for fighting WW1. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 Are you kidding? "Our grandfathers" did lots of things to women and "visible minorities" that would make "torture" a blessing in comparison. Yes, and women and visible minorities and other's, bless them all, who stood up against these things made sacrifices to put a stop to them. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Army Guy Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 Sacrifice worked out swell when our grandfathers stood up to tyranny. They'd be puking in their cups if they could see what we've made of their legacy. Not that I'm taking anything away from those sacrifices, but i'm sure if you looked you could find those monsters all through history...it's not like it's new to just this generation, todays social media just makes it easier to find....Just as i'm sure you can find great examples of us continuing the legacy or adding to it. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Shady Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 Nope, the grandfathers we recently celebrated for fighting WW1. Yep, the ones that also traded with all kind of countries in the world. Even ones that gasp, used torture! Quote
cybercoma Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 I'll never understand how people can think the governments too irresponsible to spend a fiver appropriately yet responsible enough to torture and maim. Pretty ironic, isn't it? It seems the same political leanings that make people want to refuse to pay taxes into social programs because the government is too irresponsible are also the same types who want to give the government the responsibility to torture people or execute criminals. Quote
eyeball Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 Not that I'm taking anything away from those sacrifices, Really? ...but... That one "but", just took it all away. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 Yep, the ones that also traded with all kind of countries in the world. Even ones that gasp, used torture! That just not true, it was the King and Country talking out of both sides of their mouths who did that, not ordinary grandpas like your's and mine. Like I said, they'd be puking in their cups if they could see the mealy-mouthed justifications used to defend torture, especially any who were imprisoned and tortured. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 That just not true, it was the King and Country talking out of both sides of their mouths who did that, not ordinary grandpas like your's and mine. Oh sure.....ordinary grandpas never did anything like that. They just loved "aboriginals", gays, and never beat their wives. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 Oh sure.....ordinary grandpas never did anything like that They just loved "aboriginals", gays, and never beat their wives. Cast one vote for bringing back torture. Sounds like Shady may stand with you so you have at least someone to commiserate with as you pull fingewrnails. Quote
Army Guy Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 I know this is off topic, but i just wanted to post this Site , it's a Canadian Airbourne site. once on the main page click on the Somalia site, it was written by A Cpl in the Airbourne Regt it is his own journal that he has recorded what it was like there for an Airbourne trooper there...It is a good read, i've posted it here before. http://www.commando.org/ Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 Really? That one "but", just took it all away. That was not my intent as our grand fathers had done alot of the heavy lifting building this country, that being said they also had their fair share of monsters as well, that was my piont , that it is just our generation or the next that is screwed up....i think alot of people will agree....we all had our own challanges to contend with.... And there is always a but... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Peter F Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 Hasn't torture been used for thousands of years to extract information from prisoners succesfully? Perhaps EIT simply isn't brutal enough. No. It has mostly - almost exclusively used to extract confessions and to get more 'names' to torture for more confessions. Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 Ummmm...no...not exclusively.....the NVA didn't need to get more names...they already had plenty of POWs to torture. As did the Americans and South Vietnamese with their own "Tiger Cages". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Shady Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 Oh sure.....ordinary grandpas never did anything like that They just loved "aboriginals", gays, and never beat their wives. Cast one vote for bringing back torture. Sounds like Shady may stand with you so you have at least someone to commiserate with as you pull fingewrnails. Torture is subjective. I don't believe that waterboarding or sleep deprivation is torture. Quote
guyser Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 Torture is subjective. I don't believe that waterboarding or sleep deprivation is torture. :lol: You can 'believe' what you want......and still be wrong. Quote
jbg Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 Should we support nations which use EIT as a defensive measure for their security? I would have loved to know if the World Trade Center was about to be hit, even if it took ET to get it out of someone. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Argus Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 Actually in the interest of justice is the reason he was let go. I guess you and I have a different definition of the term. I would consider it justice if someone took him down to the river and held his head under water until he floated away. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 No. It has mostly - almost exclusively used to extract confessions and to get more 'names' to torture for more confessions. I saw a doc on ww2 the other day which showed how the gestapo tortured resistance fighters to learn the names of other resistance fighters so they could grab them up. There was no suggestion the names given were not actually resistance fighters. So in that sense, the torture worked just fine. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Shady Posted August 6, 2014 Report Posted August 6, 2014 :lol::lol:You can 'believe' what you want......and still be wrong. As can you. Quote
guyser Posted August 7, 2014 Report Posted August 7, 2014 As can you.True that, but in this case, I am right. Legal experts politicians, war veterans, intelligence officials, military judges, and human rights organizations all agree...WB is torture. Quote
Shady Posted August 7, 2014 Report Posted August 7, 2014 True that, but in this case, I am right.Legal experts politicians, war veterans, intelligence officials, military judges, and human rights organizations all agree...WB is torture. Not true. Many politicians, judges, legal experts, war veterans, intelligence officials, etc believe that it is in fact not torture. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted August 7, 2014 Report Posted August 7, 2014 Not true. Many politicians, judges, legal experts, war veterans, intelligence officials, etc believe that it is in fact not torture. Yeah who are these people that say it's not torture? I damn near drown once as a kid. If you don't think subjecting someone to that is not torture, you're just f'ed up. Quote
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