BC Indian chief paid over $900,000.

[jbg]

Who is holding a gun to their head to stay??? Many FN leave the reserves all the time but others CHOOSE to stay for what they beleive is their God given right.

Why in a million years would anyone but Theresa Spence (the beneficiary of the largesse) stay at Attawapiskat?

[jbg]

I've had numerous discussions with waldo and although we almost never agreed on anything I always appreciated the discussions. That was until realized that he would lie just so that he wouldn't 'lose an argument'. I have no interest in discussing any topic with someone that will outright lie just to prove a point. I have had numerous discussions with jacee, who again I rarely agree with but I don't mind discussing with her as she wouldn't lie.

The "crickets" are not from Waldo. Here's the exchange with the offending poster's name removed:

We already have 'interrupted' their traditional water supplies in many cases by contaminating lakes rivers and groundwater through resource extraction and other industrial activities ... without their consent and without benefit or compensation to them.

What you are implicitly saying is that migration of peoples is forbidden. Unless you just mean white Europeans.

Seriously, do you think that when the FN's ancestors crossed the "land bridge" from Siberia to Alaska they knew, or cared, if there were any people there "before" who would be displaced? What about the impact of human habitation on "indigenous" wildlife? Other impacts of FN movement may have been setting of fires, which may have increased global warming.

Why is one movement of peoples different from another? Oh, I think I know the answer. The relatively free and open nature of the societies created by descendants of the English can be guilt-tripped into handouts. Try doing that back in the 800's. Do you think the Tlingit would have been so charitable with the Haida or the Kwakiutl? I doubt it.

The gist of this is the white man's move into Canada was not the only or first movement of peoples that had a serious, negative impact on the local inhabitants. Just ask the average Saxon in Germany or England, or Celt in Scotland or Ireland how they felt about the Vikings. Edited September 24, 2014 by jbg

[Accountability Now]

Why in a million years would anyone but Theresa Spence (the beneficiary of the largesse) stay at Attawapiskat?

I don't know....but they do. Personally I put my family and health ahead of anything and would move in a minute if either were suffering. I'm not against small town or remote living but only for it if its economically viable.

[jbg]

I don't know....but they do. Personally I put my family and health ahead of anything and would move in a minute if either were suffering. I'm not against small town or remote living but only for it if its economically viable.

I'm sure Theresa Spence does quite well as a band leader.

[Accountability Now]

The "crickets" are not from Waldo. Here's the exchange with the offending poster's name removed:

I responded to your post about having high expectations. I knew what the crickets were about.

The gist of this is the white man's move into Canada was not the only or first movement of peoples that had a serious, negative impact on the local inhabitants. Just ask the average Saxon in Germany or England, or Celt in Scotland or Ireland how they felt about the Vikings.

I hear what you are saying but where this is different is that those cases you listed were cases of war. In Canada, we did make agreements (treaties) and I do believe they should be honored. However, my issue is that the interpretation of those treaties have gone out the door. It is often viewed by the courts as to what the 'intent' of the treates was. I have to believe the intent of the British was not to have the FN as their own nations inside of Canada. Hence the reason why they don't own any land and had limited rights. The intent was for assimilation but that is like the death word whenever mentioned.....and you are called a racist when you even suggest it.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Accountability Now

[Accountability Now]

I'm sure Theresa Spence does quite well as a band leader.

As does her boyfriend or anyone else close to her. Its the rest of the people that suffer.

[jacee]

This may be the case for some reserves but certainly not all. A large number of reserves are so remote that our impact is minimal at best

"remote" locations are where resource extraction occurs - logging, mining, etc.

http://www.montrealpresbytery.ca/?q=node/362

> 99% OF CANADA'S 2.5 MILLION LAKES AND RIVERS ARE NOW UNPROTECTEDhttps://www.facebook.com/#!/Canadianliberationfront>Harper's omnibus Budget Bill C-45 that passed Guts 99% of Canada's Protected Rivers and Lakes -

yet it is our responsibilty to provide a state of the art treatment facility?

Safe water, yes.

You avoided my question quite nicely....how much of the costs do First Nations expect the feds to pay and how much do they actually kick in?

Under treaties, feds pay for all public services.

As for the so called slur...I wasn't trying to prove that the money was misspent.

smallc made the slur, but can't provide evidence.

I was showing that a lot of money has been given to First Nations. I would guess that its more per capital than the Feds give to other Canadians.

Prove it.

If you can't prove that claim, it's just a racial slur.

So I think its a joke when I hear FIrst Nations complaining about water treatment.

Water-borne diseases are no joke.

Of course the only way we know it is properly spent and not going into the pockets of the cheifs is fiscal accountability.

So look it up on the FN's website.

Here's a quick look at the numbers I saw. Since 2006 the Feds have spent about 5 billion per year on all infrastructure (roads, treatment plants, etc). This works out to roughly $166 per person based on 30 million Canadians. In my example above, it was shown that 7 billion over the next 10 years will be spent on First Nations infrastructure. Based on the rough 300,000 people on reserves this works out to $2333 per person or 14x what other Canadians get. Add to this....they get the extra 1 billion over two years directly for water and wastewater which is another $1666 per person per year.

Obviously the costs per person are higher as its more cost effecient to service high population densities but the fact is that money is being sent their way. So the question again is what are the expectations and how much are they willing to chip in to reach those?

Without a link, I can't verify anything you've said.

You could be comparing apples to oranges.

Invalid comparisons aren't helpful.

.

Edited September 26, 2014 by jacee

[Accountability Now]

"remote" locations are where resource extraction occurs - logging, mining, etc.
http://www.montrealpresbytery.ca/?q=node/362
> 99% OF CANADA'S 2.5 MILLION LAKES AND RIVERS ARE NOW UNPROTECTEDhttps://www.facebook.com/#!/Canadianliberationfront>Harper's omnibus Budget Bill C-45 that passed Guts 99% of Canada's Protected Rivers and Lakes -

You expect me to believe this from a Facebook page? Thousands of Canadians drink well water or have water trucked in from other muncipalities and they are fine with it. Why should each FN have a state of the art water treatment plant which is only efficient with larger populations.

Under treaties, feds pay for all public services.

Prove it. I see nothing in the treaties that say that. Education...yes. Health Care...yes. Other infrastructure....no. Especially not state of the art water treatment plants.

Prove it.

If you can't prove that claim, it's just a racial slur.

I did prove it. I showed you the numbers. I guess numbers are racial slurs now?

So look it up on the FN's website.

Lol. Thats a good one. I think I'll trust the third party audits over the FN reports.

Without a link, I can't verify anything you've said.
You could be comparing apples to oranges.
Invalid comparisons aren't helpful.

I did provide a link in the original post. Look again.

[Rocky Road]

APTN did a special on tobbaco use on reserves and it is as high as 50 percent.

Let's talk about health.

[The_Squid]

Prove it. I see nothing in the treaties that say that. Education...yes. Health Care...yes. Other infrastructure....no. Especially not state of the art water treatment plants.

The feds certainly have responsibilities for safe drinking water on reserves.

It has little or nothing to do with treaties. Here is some reading for you:

The management of potable drinking water and wastewater on First Nation reserves is a shared responsibility between First Nations and the federal government. Programs and services for providing clean, safe and secure water on reserves are provided through First Nation band councils, Indian and Northern Affairs Canada (INAC) and Health Canada (HC), including an advisory role to INAC by Environment Canada (EC). Details on the various roles and responsibilities can be found on INAC's Website.

http://www.ec.gc.ca/eau-water/default.asp?lang=En&n=E05A7F81-1

The Safe Drinking Water for First Nations Act, was introduced in the Senate on February 29, 2012.

While the spirit of the legislation is the same as former Bill S-11, the Government had incorporated significant changes based on feedback received from First Nations, Senators and Members of Parliament.

This enabling legislation is a vital step towards ensuring First Nations have the same health and safety protections for drinking water as other Canadians.

This Legislation will allow the Government to develop, in partnership with First Nations, enforceable federal regulations to ensure access to safe, clean and reliable drinking water; the effective treatment of wastewater; and the protection of sources of water on First Nation lands.

http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100034879/1100100034883

Why not do some searching before you say the feds have "no resposibilities" for water infrastructure.

[Smallc]

I don't think that anyone argued they have no responsibility. It's simply false though to blame the bad situation completely on Ottawa when they've poured money into the system.

[Accountability Now]

The feds certainly have responsibilities for safe drinking water on reserves.

It has little or nothing to do with treaties. Here is some reading for you:

Why not do some searching before you say the feds have "no resposibilities" for water infrastructure.

Perhaps you should actually read what I said before you pipe up? Where have I said they have no responsibilties? Please show me.

What I have said is that the treaties do not say we need to provide them even though jacee and overthere suggested otherwise. Of course you agree with me there so I don't reallly need to emphasize that point. I went on to say that our responsibilities do not include providing state of the art treatment facilities especially for low population density areas. In other words pouring a bunch of money into treatment plants that aren't needed at that level.

Of course the point that you completely glossed over was where I showed the rough funding per capita that the Feds give to the FN versus other Canadians. I agree that the Feds have responsibilites but its the same as their responsibilties to other Canadians....not 14x.

So my question AGAIN.....is how much should the FN be contributing to this equation especially if they are living in economically challenged areas?

[Accountability Now]

I don't think that anyone argued they have no responsibility. It's simply false though to blame the bad situation completely on Ottawa when they've poured money into the system.

Watch yourself....those might be racial slurs you're saying. Lol

[Rocky Road]

The health of common FN people is important.

Diabetes, cancer, FAS, violence, malnutrition/obesity, TB, STDs (HIV), and substance abuse/mental illnesses.

Values and priorities.

Wab Kinew.

[Accountability Now]

The health of common FN people is important.

.

The health of First Nations people is as important as every other Canadian. No more. No less.

[Rocky Road]

Ya i agree.

[Rocky Road]

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/north/7-n-w-t-2-yukon-first-nations-publish-chief-council-salaries-1.2783324

Disclosure

[Accountability Now]

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/north/7-n-w-t-2-yukon-first-nations-publish-chief-council-salaries-1.2783324

Disclosure

First...your link is a mobile link which doesn't work on PC. Here is the link for that: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/7-n-w-t-2-yukon-first-nations-publish-chief-council-salaries-1.2783324

Second....its great to see these examples of properly run First Nations. As the one cheif said: "But then regarding transparency, reporting and being accountable, Deh Gah Got'ie First Nation here in Providence, we really don't have anything to hide, and if you look at our finances you'll find that we have very little money to work with." If they have nothing to hide and money is that tight then I have no problem focusing on their money issues.

Third....there are still a number of FN who have not filed. Does this mean they do have something to hide?

Two of three Yukon First Nations have filed, and Brian Ladue, chief of the Ross River Dena Council, is the biggest earner so far. He earned 96,267.50 in the last fiscal year.

Fifteen First Nations in the Northwest Territories and the Liard First Nation in Yukon have not filed salary information. That could result in their federal funding being withheld.

If you need more money then you need to prove the money you have is being properly spent.

[Rocky Road]

Thanks for the correction.

[Rocky Road]

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/aboriginal/story/1.2783168

Squamish squandering.