Atheists Lose 9/11 Court Challenge

[Mighty AC]

Much more than that...so what ? God is every bit as valid as an unelected monarch on currency.

Putting a Christian deity in the anthem or on the money in nations that are supposed to keep church and state separate is a slap in the face to a sizable percentage of both the US and Canada populations.

As for a monarch...at least there is evidence that she does exist and though some disagree with our ties to the Brits not many dispute her existence.

[jacee]

I don't know. I have always been told that they weren't real Muslims, because real Muslims would never do such a thing. Regardless, I believe politics played more of a role.

I think that's a very valid assessment.

I also think that if a piece of wreckage shaped like a cross gives comfort to the families of victims, it's nobody else's business.

But what does it matter?

It matters because people who blame the attacks on religion discriminate and incite hatred against all Muslims.

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[Mighty AC]

I also think that if a piece of wreckage shaped like a cross gives comfort to the families of victims, it's nobody else's business.

What about the families of victims who are not Christian and are forced to tolerate another religious intrusion? Do Christian feelings and comfort outweigh those of everyone else? Isn't it possible to create a memorial museum without involving a specific religion?

Edited July 30, 2014 by Mighty AC

[jacee]

What about the families of victims who are not Christian and are forced to tolerate another religious intrusion?

I don't believe any of them have complained.

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[Mighty AC]

I don't believe any of them have complained.

Should they have to? Is it fair to force them to make themselves the target of scorn by a favoured Christian majority before we consider their views? And what if a family has or does take that brave and isolating step, would you agree with the removal of one religion's symbol then?

Would you be fine with public racism, sexism or sexual orientationism as long as the target has not yet personally complained? In your view, are most of Rob Ford's comments acceptable as long as it's only the Star that's complaining and not spokes people for specific groups that he's offended?

Edited July 30, 2014 by Mighty AC

[The_Squid]

I don't believe any of them have complained.

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How do you know that they didn't? And if they did, would the cross be taken down?

[Shady]

What about the families of victims who are not Christian and are forced to tolerate another religious intrusion? Do Christian feelings and comfort outweigh those of everyone else? Isn't it possible to create a memorial museum without involving a specific religion?

If they're not religious, then the metal object should mean nothing to them. Other than being a meaningless random metal object found among the wreckage.

[jacee]

Should they have to? Is it fair to force them to make themselves the target of scorn by a favoured Christian majority before we consider their views? And what if a family has or does take that brave and isolating step, would you agree with the removal of one religion's symbol then?

Would you be fine with public racism, sexism or sexual orientationism as long as the target has not yet personally complained? In your view, are most of Rob Ford's comments acceptable as long as it's only the Star that's complaining and not spokes people for specific groups that he's offended?

Good grief!

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[jacee]

How do you know that they didn't?

The media.

And if they did, would the cross be taken down?

Gee, I don't know.

And you don't either.

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[Mighty AC]

If they're not religious, then the metal object should mean nothing to them. Other than being a meaningless random metal object found among the wreckage.

Really? So if either of these symbols were placed in the museum it should not affect Christians in anyway?

[The_Squid]

The media.

Gee, I don't know.

And you don't either.

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Is there a cite for this "media"?

Do you think it should be taken down one of the families complains?

[Mighty AC]

Good grief!

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Really? No response? So it's ok to knowingly tread on a minority group as long as they don't complain? nice.

[Shady]

Really? So if either of these symbols were placed in the museum it should not affect Christians in anyway?

Why would it be placed in the museum? The cross was part of the wreckage of 911, it isn't something just put up in the museum.

[Shady]

Really? No response? So it's ok to knowingly tread on a minority group as long as they don't complain? nice.

It's not any tread on any group. That's just in your head.

[Guest]

Really? So if either of these symbols were placed in the museum it should not affect Christians in anyway?

Isn't the issue the effect on Atheists?

If those symbols were placed in the museum, as a recognition of the Muslims who died that day, would you, as an atheist, object?

I wouldn't. Even given the obvious link to the perpetrators.

[The_Squid]

So finding a beam in the shape of a cross is a miraculous event in the wreckage of a building that was made up of crossbeams?

The criteria for miracles is way too low these days....

[jacee]

Really? No response? So it's ok to knowingly tread on a minority group as long as they don't complain? nice.

Carry on twisting.

[The_Squid]

Carry on twisting.

carry on avoiding questions! lol

[Mighty AC]

Isn't the issue the effect on Atheists?

If those symbols were placed in the museum, as a recognition of the Muslims who died that day, would you, as an atheist, object?

I wouldn't. Even given the obvious link to the perpetrators.

Why single out any one of the religious orientations of the victims? Christianity enjoys tremendous religious advantage in North America, but I wouldn't be happy with public facilities displaying other religious symbols either. Edited July 30, 2014 by Mighty AC

[Mighty AC]

Was 9/11 an American tragedy or just a Christian American tragedy? Or does it really only belong to identifiable groups that have logged formal complaints?

Edited July 30, 2014 by Mighty AC

[Guest]

Why single out any one of the religious orientations of the victims? Christianity enjoys tremendous religious advantage in North America, but I wouldn't be happy with public facilities displaying other religious symbols either.

I think it's because I don't care, unless it directly affects people. Offense I don't call directly affecting.

[Shady]

Was 9/11 an American tragedy or just a Christian American tragedy? Or does it really only belong to identifiable groups that have logged formal complaints?

Are you purposely being obtuse?

[jacee]

So finding a beam in the shape of a cross is a miraculous event in the wreckage of a building that was made up of crossbeams?

The criteria for miracles is way too low these days....

Well said.

This is quite the tempest in a t-pot, methinks!

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Edited July 30, 2014 by jacee

[The_Squid]

The tragedy has been "Christianized" by people who seem to think that this was an attack on their religion. Many politicians have made this out to be an attack on Christianity and played up the "holy war" aspect...

[Mighty AC]

Are you purposely being obtuse?

I've said that it was a no win situation for those challenging the cross and so it shouldn't have been challenged. I've also explained that they do have a point and the rationale for my opposition to one religion's symbol being included in a public facility. Why do you believe it should be included?