Black Dog Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) I agree with painted and striped lanes. Not barriers. Lines on the road aren't worth the paint they're made with. Physical separation is the only way to ensure safety. That's a concept I'm know you understand. To wit: Edited July 23, 2014 by Black Dog Quote
Black Dog Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Bike infrastructure has to come in parallel with that, not instead of it. Often, this can be achieved by turning low-use residential streets into bike commute arteries, developing bike trails with overpasses or underpasses, subdividing wide sidewalks, or removing parking lanes. Argus is right that converting traffic lanes to dedicated bike lanes has significant impacts on traffic and congestion, which are not desirable. Trying to "stick it" to the drivers by increasing congestion is no more intelligent than trying to "stick it" to cyclists by opposing bike infrastructure. Congestion results in increased pollution, increased stress, reduced economic activity, reduced leisure time, and poorer health, imposing high costs on society, and has furthermore been shown to not be effective in reducing car ridership. No one is talking about that, though. It's an unintended consequence of trying to navigate infrastructure that is ill-suited if not hostile to that particular mode of transportation. As a cyclist, I'm not out to make anyone late for dinner, but my safety>their convenience. Edited July 23, 2014 by Black Dog Quote
Mighty AC Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) I don't know how valid these predictions are. As people age, they are less likely to commute by bike, and all demographics predict rising average population age.I'm thinking a little further out, beyond the Boomer bubble. Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with designing cities to accomodate a high volume of vehicle traffic. One of the reasons that being "against" cars is popular right now is the CO2 they produce and its role in climate change, but electric and other zero emission cars are likely to become much more prevalent in the coming years, removing that argument. Few communities are truly walkable (work, home, grocery store, entertainment, etc all within a few block radius) and that will remain the case for the foreseeable future. So infrastructure will have to continue to be designed with high car throughput in mind.Designing communities for cars, even if zero emission, detracts from the walkability. Aside from some larger cities, you are right that very few communities are truly walkable. However, this is starting to change. The creation of many new primary residences in the downtown areas of smaller cities has been going on for quite some time and we're seeing more mixed use zoning in new suburban developments. Pedestrian only streets and markets with parking on the outskirts are becoming more used in urban revitalization as well. Bike infrastructure has to come in parallel with that, not instead of it. Often, this can be achieved by turning low-use residential streets into bike commute arteries, developing bike trails with overpasses or underpasses, subdividing wide sidewalks, or removing parking lanes. Argus is right that converting traffic lanes to dedicated bike lanes has significant impacts on traffic and congestion, which are not desirable.I agree that we are in a conversion process and that is far more difficult than designing for the future from scratch...like say Masdar. I also agree that it is preferable to create bike and pedestrian corridors away from main thoroughfares if possible. For example old unused rail lines can often by quickly converted to very useful bike paths. In most cases there is room to create bike lanes without the need to remove a vehicle lanes, however sometimes it's required. Hopefully, the removal of roadways are accompanied by improvements in transit efficiency that can at least partially offset any added congestion. In my area a few busy roadways have had lanes removed and bike lanes added without any noticeable impact on driving time. Apparently dropping from 2 lanes to 1 has also reduced the number of car accidents as well. I don't want to stick it to drivers, but I also don't want to avoid transitioning towards the future to protect the status quo. Edited July 23, 2014 by Mighty AC Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Bonam Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 I'm thinking a little further out, beyond the Boomer bubble. Designing communities for cars, even if zero emission, detracts from the walkability. Aside from some larger cities, you are right that very few communities are truly walkable. However, this is starting to change. The creation of many new primary residences in the downtown areas of smaller cities has been going on for quite some time and we're seeing more mixed use zoning in new suburban developments. Pedestrian only streets and markets with parking on the outskirts are becoming more used in urban revitalization as well. I agree that we are in a conversion process and that is far more difficult than designing for the future from scratch...like say Masdar. I also agree that it is preferable to create bike and pedestrian corridors away from main thoroughfares if possible. For example old unused rail lines can often by quickly converted to very useful bike paths. In most cases there is room to create bike lanes without the need to remove a vehicle lanes, however sometimes it's required. Hopefully, the removal of roadways are accompanied by improvements in transit efficiency that can at least partially offset any added congestion. In my area a few busy roadways have had lanes removed and bike lanes added without any noticeable impact on driving time. Apparently dropping from 2 lanes to 1 has also reduced the number of car accidents as well. I don't want to stick it to drivers, but I also don't want to avoid transitioning towards the future to protect the status quo. While I want adequate bike infrastructure as much as the next guy, I disagree with your theme in this post that bicycling is "the future". Bicycling is a form of transport that will likely remain relatively niche, used by maybe 10-20% of commuters at most, whether due to distance, weather, physical fitness, convenience, etc. Quote
cybercoma Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 Harsh language for sensitive ears, but this video is hilarious.This guy got a ticket for not riding his bike in the bicycle lane. He decided to make a video demonstrating exactly why he doesn't always stay in the bike lane. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 Yep...even when the cyclists get designated bike lanes, they don't always use them...because...cyclists are special...they are visionaries who are saving the planet. Laws don't apply to cyclists. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
The_Squid Posted July 23, 2014 Author Report Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Yep...even when the cyclists get designated bike lanes, they don't always use them...because...cyclists are special...they are visionaries who are saving the planet. Laws don't apply to cyclists. ummm... because there was a car parked in the bike "lane"... a cop car... taxis... delivery trucks... etc, etc. another great reason for properly separated bike lanes. Edited July 23, 2014 by The_Squid Quote
cybercoma Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 ...because....cops are special....they are visionaries who are saving the planet. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 ummm... because there was a car parked in the bike "lane"... a cop car... Guess what....motor vehicle lanes are blocked at times too....big deal. Just another whining cyclist. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
cybercoma Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 Guess what....motor vehicle lanes are blocked at times too....big deal. Just another whining cyclist. Says the guy whining about cyclists. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Says the guy whining about cyclists. I always accept my traffic tickets....no whining required. Cry-Babies... Edited July 23, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Bryan Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Yep...even when the cyclists get designated bike lanes, they don't always use them...because...cyclists are special...they are visionaries who are saving the planet. Laws don't apply to cyclists. Laws only apply to cyclists if those laws aren't risking their lives. Some bike lanes are well designed and safe, but most of them are far more dangerous. They have painted many of them here in Winnipeg that I would NEVER travel in. They go right alongside a row of parked cars so you're riding right in the door zone. I will not even think about riding in those. If the lanes are right against the curb, they are subject to debris, potholes, drainage grates, cars constantly parking in them, and cars on your left making right turns directly in front of you. They are the least safe place to be on the entire road. Guess what....motor vehicle lanes are blocked at times too....big deal. Just another whining cyclist. You're the one who is whining. Car driver sees that a lane is continuously blocked, he changes lanes and stays out of the blocked one. Cyclist avoiding the bike lane is doing the same thing. Edited July 23, 2014 by Bryan Quote
guyser Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 I always accept my traffic tickets....no whining required. Cry-Babies...Who the F is talking about traffic tickets. Oh riiiight....deflect when you have nothing but troll responses. I forgot. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 ...You're the one who is whining. Car driver sees that a lane is continuously blocked, he changes lanes and stays out of the blocked one. Cyclist avoiding the bike lane is doing the same thing. Nope...cyclist rationalizes that staying in the bike lane is only optional...because he/she is "special". Go around the blockage and return to the designated bike lane. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Bryan Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 Nope...cyclist rationalizes that staying in the bike lane is only optional...because he/she is "special". Go around the blockage and return to the designated bike lane. Designated bike lane is not safe, cyclist stays in lane that is safe. Motorist rationalizes that he is "special" and wants cyclist out of "his" lane. Quote
guyser Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 Nope...cyclist rationalizes that staying in the bike lane is only optional Hey einstein, it is optional LOL Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 Designated bike lane is not safe, cyclist stays in lane that is safe. Motorist rationalizes that he is "special" and wants cyclist out of "his" lane. Police officer observes cyclist outside of the lane paved and painted for his/her own safety....stops scofflaw cyclist...writes traffic ticket. Cyclist immediately begins to whine and plea his/her case. Cop laughs....drives off in his designated motor vehicle traffic lane. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
BC_chick Posted July 23, 2014 Report Posted July 23, 2014 When a car is traveling at 60k its more than an inconvenience to have them slow down to 5k. Do you exercise, Argus? Run, ride, or even walk? Because 5k/hr is walking speed. A good cyclist averages 30-40k/hr. Heck even I average around 30 and I'm not nearly as good as some of the people I ride with. When I'm driving in the city (where most bike lanes are) I watch cyclists pass me all the time. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Bryan Posted July 24, 2014 Report Posted July 24, 2014 Police officer observes cyclist outside of the lane paved and painted for his/her own safety....stops scofflaw cyclist...writes traffic ticket. Cyclist immediately begins to whine and plea his/her case. Cop laughs....drives off in his designated motor vehicle traffic lane. More like judge agrees with cyclist, dismisses fine and reprimands cop for being an idiot. Even that is only if the cop is that much of an idiot that he writes tickets for things that are not illegal. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 24, 2014 Report Posted July 24, 2014 More like judge agrees with cyclist, dismisses fine and reprimands cop for being an idiot. Even that is only if the cop is that much of an idiot that he writes tickets for things that are not illegal. Cop doesn't care...doesn't even show up for the summons...ticket dismissed....but whiney cyclist balls are still busted NYPD style. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Bryan Posted July 24, 2014 Report Posted July 24, 2014 Cop doesn't care...doesn't even show up for the summons...ticket dismissed....but whiney cyclist balls are still busted NYPD style. Thankfully I don't live in a place where police act like gestapo. Police here are actually aware of what most of the laws actually are. For the few that don't, I have my helmet cam. Again, it's still you that's doing all of the whining. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted July 24, 2014 Report Posted July 24, 2014 Do you exercise, Argus? Run, ride, or even walk? Because 5k/hr is walking speed. A good cyclist averages 30-40k/hr. Heck even I average around 30 and I'm not nearly as good as some of the people I ride with. When I'm driving in the city (where most bike lanes are) I watch cyclists pass me all the time. And that's where I've found bikes to be the biggest problem. You slow to make a turn, then all of the sudden there is a bike passing you on the inside at full speed. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Bryan Posted July 24, 2014 Report Posted July 24, 2014 And that's where I've found bikes to be the biggest problem. You slow to make a turn, then all of the sudden there is a bike passing you on the inside at full speed. This is exactly what I'm talking about: A cyclist that you just passed within the same lane, then tried to kill by turning in front of him. You're the one who is 100% at fault there, and you're completely oblivious to it. Pay attention or get off the road. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 24, 2014 Report Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) ...Again, it's still you that's doing all of the whining. OK...but thats a lot cheaper than begging for every road and intersection in North America to be "upgraded" for bike lanes that some whiney cyclists won't use anyway...because they're...special. Edited July 24, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
The_Squid Posted July 24, 2014 Author Report Posted July 24, 2014 OK...but thats a lot cheaper than begging for every road and intersection in North America to be "upgraded" for bike lanes that some whiney cyclists won't use anyway...because they're...special. Hyperbole/BS. Quote
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