PrimeNumber Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 Myers was putting up points of charas calibre by the age of 19 in the pro game. He's fallen off a little bit since then but he csn easily return to form with a half decent partner and goaltender. We'll put him on the PP. You'll see what happens next. Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
Black Dog Posted February 12, 2015 Author Report Posted February 12, 2015 Chara was a good defender by 24, he was not elite. His breakout season was at 26, I'd still say he didn't hit his stride until his 30's. Earlier you said he didn't breakout till his 30s, so I'm glad to see you come around. Simply putting up points doesn't make one an elite defender. His all around possession game didn't come until 30, his peak was at 30. He started becoming good at 24 but he didn't peak until his early 30's. Thats when he was an elite defencemen, that's not really debatable. Even if we accept all that to be true, Myers really better get cracking because he's well behind the Chara curve. IMO it's just as likely he ends up being Hal Gill. Myers was putting up points of charas calibre by the age of 19 in the pro game. He's fallen off a little bit since then but he csn easily return to form with a half decent partner and goaltender. We'll put him on the PP. You'll see what happens next. Well the fact you think Myers needs to have the benefit of good teammate sin order to be successful is a pretty solid indicator that he's nowhere near an elite player, you know, the kind who make others better. Quote
PrimeNumber Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) I Earlier you said he didn't breakout till his 30s, so I'm glad to see you come around. Even if we accept all that to be true, Myers really better get cracking because he's well behind the Chara curve. IMO it's just as likely he ends up being Hal Gill. Well the fact you think Myers needs to have the benefit of good teammate sin order to be successful is a pretty solid indicator that he's nowhere near an elite player, you know, the kind who make others better. I'll admit Chara had his breakout season at 26 but he was nowhere near an elite defencemen until his 30's. Like I said simply putting up points doesn't make someone an elite player, see phil kessel. I never said Myers was elite but hockey is not a one man game, not now. Having new surroundings and going from a basement team to a playoff contender can change a player and having better team mates for some can make a world of difference, see the resurgence of Dubnyk in Minnesota or Perron in Pittsburgh. You're making the same argument for Kane when and if he gets to play with Mcdavid or Eichel. I see Kane as one dimensional, he's a bit of a diva as well. If he changes his entire game he may do well but at this time the trade puts Winnipeg into heavy contender status. Buffalo still has a long way to go. I'm sure if you look at our record with and without Kane this season its probably not any different. Edited February 12, 2015 by PrimeNumber Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
overthere Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 Winnipeg has one of the better blue lines in the league now and Myers will make it better. There is no reason not to expect him to thrive, and not a smal;l part of that will be that expectations of him in Winnipeg will be less than they were in Buffalo. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
PrimeNumber Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 Winnipeg has one of the better blue lines in the league now and Myers will make it better. There is no reason not to expect him to thrive, and not a smal;l part of that will be that expectations of him in Winnipeg will be less than they were in Buffalo. I think so, he'll be playing a smaller role with more sheltered minutes and he will be playing with Toby Enstrom who can definitely teach him a thing or two as he adjusts to Winnipeg's system. He will probably get some powerplay time on the second unit as well. We shall see tonight! Where they put Stafford, I have no idea. 2nd, or 3rd line? He can play either wing so I'm curious what will happen come game time. Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
overthere Posted February 12, 2015 Report Posted February 12, 2015 Stafford is a rental player, and if he feels like it he can be a big contributor offensively in a plyoff run. His problem is that he is hot and cold, and does not like the rough hardnosed hockey that Winnipeg plays. Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion!
The_Squid Posted February 13, 2015 Report Posted February 13, 2015 I don't know his personality or ability to teach, but if Buff can be a mentor to Myers, look out! This might be what Myers needs to get back to his rookie form. If this is the case, then Winnipeg has done very well. If not, they still have a serviceable, if overpaid, D-man in Myers. Probably a good trade for both teams... Quote
PrimeNumber Posted February 13, 2015 Report Posted February 13, 2015 Stafford is a rental player, and if he feels like it he can be a big contributor offensively in a plyoff run. His problem is that he is hot and cold, and does not like the rough hardnosed hockey that Winnipeg plays. He just needs to play a complete two-way game, we have many players who aren't overly physical but they mostly make up for it with their defence. Looking at the roster chart it seems they have Stafford on the 2nd line at left wing. He should be getting some good minutes tonight. We'll see what they're made of against a really good Nashville team with Rinne between the pipes. Weber is out apparantly for some reason? So that helps. Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
PrimeNumber Posted February 13, 2015 Report Posted February 13, 2015 I don't know his personality or ability to teach, but if Buff can be a mentor to Myers, look out! This might be what Myers needs to get back to his rookie form. If this is the case, then Winnipeg has done very well. If not, they still have a serviceable, if overpaid, D-man in Myers. Probably a good trade for both teams... Or a trade chip, the Jets weren't the only team interested in Myers. Chevy might not be done yet. Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
The_Squid Posted February 13, 2015 Report Posted February 13, 2015 Or a trade chip, the Jets weren't the only team interested in Myers. Chevy might not be done yet. I think it's sink or swim... Either he works out great, or he is overpaid.... no one wants an overpaid player these days in the salary cap era. I think the Jets were smartt to take a chance on him... he isn't going anywhere any time soon. Quote
PrimeNumber Posted February 13, 2015 Report Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) If not, they still have a serviceable, if overpaid, D-man in Myers. The beauty of the Myers deal is he progressively gets cheaper. He signed his deal before the new CBA so he got a top heavy 1st year of $10,000,000 and $6 million in the following year. In 2014-15 and 2015-16, he will receive $5 million each season, followed by a 2016-2017 salary of $4 million, a 2017-2018 salary of $3.5 million and a 2018-2019 salary of $3 million. So the Jets have Myers for 4.5 years at a total of about $18 million. Which is a much better deal than Bogosian's $5 million a year for roughly the same amount of time. Edited February 13, 2015 by PrimeNumber Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
PrimeNumber Posted February 13, 2015 Report Posted February 13, 2015 I think it's sink or swim... Either he works out great, or he is overpaid.... no one wants an overpaid player these days in the salary cap era. I think the Jets were smartt to take a chance on him... he isn't going anywhere any time soon. He gets cheaper, though. See post above. Even if he only ends up being average his salary keeps getting cheaper. Which opens up some nice cap space down the road for the Jets. Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
kimmy Posted February 13, 2015 Report Posted February 13, 2015 Seriously, though, that must have been one ugly track suit. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
BubberMiley Posted February 13, 2015 Report Posted February 13, 2015 When asked about the trade, Drew Stafford said he had unfortunately just bought a whole bunch of new tracksuits. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
PrimeNumber Posted February 14, 2015 Report Posted February 14, 2015 Seriously, though, that must have been one ugly track suit. -k I think it had more to do with stuff like this... or this apparently he is very arrogant to fans and teammates and has made tweets which have been deleted and comments heard by others about how much he hates playing for the Jets. The tracksuit thing and the subsequent Byfuglien retaliation was just the straw that broke the camels back. His lone wolf style of play may get him goals but he will never be the leader that Buffalo is hoping he will be unless he turns his attitude around. He thinks pretty highly of himself. Guys like this can be a poison to team chemistry. Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
guyser Posted February 14, 2015 Report Posted February 14, 2015 Woah the first pic I had seen, the second is news to me. If true, no wonder Winni doesnt give a shit he is gone. Thats is soo bad (if true) it makes my head spin. Methinks Ted Nolan , a no nonsense guy from my read, wont put up with that crap either.Maybe he is a second coming of whathisname on the old Sens team, #1 draft and busted...Yashin. Quote
PrimeNumber Posted February 14, 2015 Report Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) Woah the first pic I had seen, the second is news to me. If true, no wonder Winni doesnt give a shit he is gone. Thats is soo bad (if true) it makes my head spin. Methinks Ted Nolan , a no nonsense guy from my read, wont put up with that crap either.Maybe he is a second coming of whathisname on the old Sens team, #1 draft and busted...Yashin. It's unfortunate that he developed into that kind of person. He had such potential. There is a reason he was on the 3rd line and it's because everyone else on the left side, Ladd and Perreault, were contributing more to scoring than he was. Scoring is what he was drafted for and is probably one of the reasons he thinks so highly of himself. (1 - 30 goal season) While he can provide a physical presence and throws a hard punch that's not what he was payed to do. There many players that can bring that style to a game and score 15-20 goals a season for much less than $5 mil a season. Kane was a 4th overall pick (2009) but ended up playing on a 3rd line, while not doing what he was drafted and signed to do. Plus with everything that happened he wasn't going to play in Winnipeg again anyways. The Jet's management looked at the situation and said let's get the best return from him possible. Bogosian was a 3rd overall pick (2008) in the same year Myers went 12th overall (2008). But hadn't developed into the player we had hoped while playing top pairing minutes with arguably the most responsible defencemen (Enstrom) on the Jets blueline. Myers had been playing top line minutes with terrible partners, on a downward trend from his rookie season, all while the Sabres team as a collective was on a downward trend. He will now play with the most defensively responsible blue liner on the Jets (Enstrom) while having sheltered minutes to help his game along at a slower pace. We can safely call the Bogo-Myers deal a wash when you look at the rest Winnipeg got a 3rd line Rental, who is a Minnesota native on a team with many Minnesota natives that he has played with internationally. I think he resigns. He also has value for the rest of the year. Then we get a "B" level agitating scorer in Lemieux, Buffalo's top AHL scorer in Armia and a 1st round pick for Kane, plus a toss in Goalie prospect that had a very slim chance of getting a chance. When it first looked like Kane was on the way out, the hope was for a return that included a first, a prospect and a roster player. The Jets got that, and an additional prospect. It also created more cap space for future moves. Chevy did a bang up job! Edited February 14, 2015 by PrimeNumber Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
The_Squid Posted February 14, 2015 Report Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) I'm thinking he is perfect for Toronto!!! It would not surprise me in the least!! Kane needs to spend some of that cash on some better clothes!! Edited February 14, 2015 by The_Squid Quote
PrimeNumber Posted February 14, 2015 Report Posted February 14, 2015 I'm thinking he is perfect for Toronto!!! It would not surprise me in the least!! Kane needs to spend some of that cash on some better clothes!! Well we do need Winnik to finish out the top 9... Re-do. Three way trade. Quote “Be like water making its way through cracks. Do not be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find your way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”― Bruce Lee
kimmy Posted February 14, 2015 Report Posted February 14, 2015 When asked about the trade, Drew Stafford said he had unfortunately just bought a whole bunch of new tracksuits. oh my gosh if he actually said that, that's one of the best hockey quotes ever. I think it had more to do with stuff like this... or this apparently he is very arrogant to fans and teammates and has made tweets which have been deleted and comments heard by others about how much he hates playing for the Jets. The tracksuit thing and the subsequent Byfuglien retaliation was just the straw that broke the camels back. His lone wolf style of play may get him goals but he will never be the leader that Buffalo is hoping he will be unless he turns his attitude around. He thinks pretty highly of himself. Guys like this can be a poison to team chemistry. da-a-a-amn, that sounds pretty bad. I have not followed his career, and when I think of him I always think of the rambunctious kid who punched Matt Cooke's stupid head in, which made every hockey fan stand up and cheer. I hadn't realized he had turned into an NBA player off the ice. Sounds like he has some growing up to do. Maybe he is a second coming of whathisname on the old Sens team, #1 draft and busted...Yashin. Yashin wasn't a bust. He was a very good hockey player. My family was living in Ottawa at the time. His greed and his obnoxious agent led to his contract hold-out, which led to him getting traded out of Ottawa (for Chara and Spezza! what a move that turned out to be!) Then the Islanders gave him a 10 year $100 million dollar contract and he turned into a lazy slob who didn't feel like he had to play hard because he already had his $100 million. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Mighty AC Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Yashin wasn't a bust. He was a very good hockey player. My family was living in Ottawa at the time. His greed and his obnoxious agent led to his contract hold-out, which led to him getting traded out of Ottawa (for Chara and Spezza! what a move that turned out to be!) Then the Islanders gave him a 10 year $100 million dollar contract and he turned into a lazy slob who didn't feel like he had to play hard because he already had his $100 million. -k Guyser probably meant Daigle. He was one of the biggest busts in NHL history. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
guyser Posted February 17, 2015 Report Posted February 17, 2015 Guyser probably meant Daigle. He was one of the biggest busts in NHL history....and thank you for the correction, that is who I meant. But to kimmy in reply, he has his $100M and never plasy hard after...isnt the the definition of a bust? Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.