Is 16 years Old Enough To Vote?

Big Guy · June 23, 2014

Maybe go for quality over quantity. Bringing up relevant news, current events, or thoughtful topics is one thing, but a brief glance reveals this board is swamped with Big Guy thread topics, some of them interesting, some of them on the wrong boards, many of them complete duds.

Time for a nuclear Canada? Unpaid Internships = Slave Labour? Why are Charles and Camilla visiting Canada? Should Canada lower the voting age to 16? My favourite: India goes in a new direction (on Canadian Federal Politics board).

The proper response for most of these topics is some combination of *eye roll*, *yawn* or "lolno".

The problem lies in the differing tastes and interests of the different members. If the intent is to post something that will generate many responses then one would stick to sex, religion or politics. I post to elicit the views of others and to test my views against theirs. It is a learning experience. My assumption is that threads and topics which are irrelevant to most will quickly work their way down the board and into the black hole of opinion archives.

In fact, I personally find that when a topic goes into many, many pages then the issue has been exhausted and the thread has become a personality clash between a few posters. I tend to avoid those.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I will consider your suggestions.

Moonbox · June 23, 2014

The problem lies in the differing tastes and interests of the different members. If the intent is to post something that will generate many responses then one would stick to sex, religion or politics. I post to elicit the views of others and to test my views against theirs. It is a learning experience. My assumption is that threads and topics which are irrelevant to most will quickly work their way down the board and into the black hole of opinion archives.

You have lots of interesting thread topics, to be honest. You're also right that there are different tastes and interests. I myself avoid the vast majority of topics, simply because they bore me. That still doesn't meant that everything warrants its own thread. Not every thought that pops into your head is worthy of discussion.

The idea that Canada should be armed with nuclear weapons is, frankly, pure silliness on virtually every level. Even basic understanding of geopolitics would dismiss the idea as ludicrous. I apologize if I'm coming across as rude, but I don't think you needed the views and opinions of this forum to confirm that.

In fact, I personally find that when a topic goes into many, many pages then the issue has been exhausted and the thread has become a personality clash between a few posters. I tend to avoid those.

Yes, this is something I'm often guilty of. What's nice, however, is how the forum now flags responses to your own posts. This makes it way easier to keep track of separate discussions and ensure your own contributions and those of people you're interested in don't drown in pissing matches. Regardless, I see where you're coming from with that. Even so, a little more reflection before posting a topic can keep the forum an overall more interesting place. Yes, poorly considered threads eventually make it to the archives, but sometimes that takes awhile. Sometimes you get several pages of interest based purely on people mocking the OP and then people defending him, then arguing with each other about how they're arguing.

On Guard for Thee · June 23, 2014

What's the pont, 18 - 24 year olds already have the lowest voter turnout of any age group. Change it back to 21.

You've probably got a very good point there. We could go through a bunch of rigamarole (sp) and they wouldn't show up for a few years anyway. Too many more "interesting" things to do in those years.

Signals.Cpl · June 24, 2014

What's the pont, 18 - 24 year olds already have the lowest voter turnout of any age group. Change it back to 21.

And what would that do? Instead of trying to engage those young voters and encourage their participation and education in the importance of voting we would just prevent the few willing to vote from doing so?

Bob Macadoo · June 24, 2014

Bob - altering quotes in this way is considered an insult, so please don't do it.

The quote is an insult, Capt Partisan.....where was your indignation for that? You all can "ignore" dickish behaviour.....my mother taught me "bully a bully or expect it to continue."

Wilber · June 24, 2014

And what would that do? Instead of trying to engage those young voters and encourage their participation and education in the importance of voting we would just prevent the few willing to vote from doing so?

On the other hand, they might just appreciate it more when they do get it. The more difficult something is to obtain, the more it is valued. A parent realizes this when they see the difference in the way their kids treat something they were given compared to things they had to pay for with their own hard earned money.

Bob Macadoo · June 24, 2014

On the other hand, they might just appreciate it more when they do get it. The more difficult something is to obtain, the more it is valued. A parent realizes this when they see the difference in the way their kids treat something they were given compared to things they had to pay for with their own hard earned money.

You're describing a privilege to me.....are we redefing what voting is? You don't need to appreciate a right, only utilize it or defend it?

You appreciate a privilege, as it can be removed.

Wilber · June 24, 2014

You're describing a privilege to me.....are we redefing what voting is? You don't need to appreciate a right, only utilize it or defend it?

You appreciate a privilege, as it can be removed.

Voting is both. We are not talking about removing a right, just the age it applies. If it was just a question of a right, any kid who could mark an X would be able to vote.

Signals.Cpl · June 24, 2014

On the other hand, they might just appreciate it more when they do get it. The more difficult something is to obtain, the more it is valued. A parent realizes this when they see the difference in the way their kids treat something they were given compared to things they had to pay for with their own hard earned money.

Postponing the right to vote for a few years would do nothing to improve voter turnout, what could potentially improve voter turn out is starting from the first year of high school kids are given civics classes with the express goal to educate them and encourage them to participate.

Bob Macadoo · June 24, 2014

Postponing the right to vote for a few years would do nothing to improve voter turnout, what could potentially improve voter turn out is starting from the first year of high school kids are given civics classes with the express goal to educate them and encourage them to participate.

See my agreement Page 2 - Post #20, before it got into the "Kids are naive, not like us adults." rhetoric.

Signals.Cpl · June 24, 2014

See my agreement Page 2 - Post #20, before it got into the "Kids are naive, not like us adults." rhetoric.

I would actually go further.

Wilber · June 24, 2014

Postponing the right to vote for a few years would do nothing to improve voter turnout, what could potentially improve voter turn out is starting from the first year of high school kids are given civics classes with the express goal to educate them and encourage them to participate.

And yet the age groups with the highest turnouts are those who had to wait the longest to vote.

You are talking pie in the sky. You think you can somehow make kids more mature than they actually are. 16 year olds are still kids so let them be kids, they will be stuck being adults for the rest of their lives.

Signals.Cpl · June 24, 2014

And yet the age groups with the highest turnouts are those who had to wait the longest to vote.

You are talking pie in the sky. You think you can somehow make kids more mature than they actually are. 16 year olds are still kids so let them be kids, they will be stuck being adults for the rest of their lives.

If you notice that the lower the age group, the lower the voter turnout so we can assume that they are immature and un-interested or we can look at the education system and ask ourselves we are doing something different now than 10, 20 or 50 years ago. Show 15 and 16 year olds that their votes matter, more importantly their life and prosperity depend on that vote and its proper use and they may just go and vote when they get the chance. If kids get half a credit in civics and mandatory history in Grade 10 only, why are we so surprised when they show no interest in the democratic process when few of them have been exposed to that process throughout their time in school?

Wilber · June 24, 2014

If you notice that the lower the age group, the lower the voter turnout so we can assume that they are immature and un-interested or we can look at the education system and ask ourselves we are doing something different now than 10, 20 or 50 years ago. Show 15 and 16 year olds that their votes matter, more importantly their life and prosperity depend on that vote and its proper use and they may just go and vote when they get the chance. If kids get half a credit in civics and mandatory history in Grade 10 only, why are we so surprised when they show no interest in the democratic process when few of them have been exposed to that process throughout their time in school?

Good luck with that but it ignores basic human nature. You want kids to be interested in the same things you are. They aren't.

Bob Macadoo · June 24, 2014

Good luck with that but it ignores basic human nature. You want kids to be interested in the same things you are. They aren't.

2 age groups having different interests with respect to politics is not human nature.....thats sociological, which can be changed. Kids wanting to run around more than adults is human nature.

Signals.Cpl · June 24, 2014

Good luck with that but it ignores basic human nature. You want kids to be interested in the same things you are. They aren't.

I'm not talking about interests, I'm talking about education. Most 30 year olds don't have the same interest in politics as I do or as they should so what do we chalk that off to?

I'm not even arguing for 16 year olds to get the vote, my position is that kids should get civics classes from the first day they enter high school if not earlier, saying they have no interest and then taking away their right to vote until they are 21 does not solve anything but postpone the same uninformed and uninterested voters from voting at an earlier age. If we want our political system to flourish we need to educate young people because they are the future of the country, if they remain uninformed and uninterested in later life then our system starts to breakdown with fewer and fewer people voting and thus controlling the government or massive numbers of those uninformed and uninterested voters will vote based on the way the politician looks compared to their opponent or the ridiculous and unrealistic promises they make.

Michael Hardner · June 24, 2014

The quote is an insult, Capt Partisan.....where was your indignation for that? You all can "ignore" dickish behaviour.....my mother taught me "bully a bully or expect it to continue."

I don't read your posts enough to know which side of the line you post from - left or right - so the partisan comment is incorrect.

If I didn't comment on another insult, the chances are I didn't see it. In the example given, the original quote was about the comment and not the person. You made it about the person, which is an insult.

Michael Hardner · June 24, 2014

my mother taught me "bully a bully or expect it to continue."

BTW - Unless Charles Anthony is your mother, then her moderation points aren't relevant.

Big Guy · June 24, 2014

During the last provincial election, I was standing in a short line (we always vote in advance polls) I noticed just behind us was a middle aged couple and three younger people. We got involved in a conversation and found out that it was a father, wife, their son and two friends of their son. This was to be the teenagers first vote and they did seem excited.

I was told that last evening, they had dinner together and had discussed the various platforms.

Each person had their cards with them.

It warmed my heart that there were still some people who did not take their form of government lightly and took the time to not only vote, but to encourage young people to get involved in their own futures. It made me feel that the country was in good hands.

Wilber · June 24, 2014

I'm not talking about interests, I'm talking about education. Most 30 year olds don't have the same interest in politics as I do or as they should so what do we chalk that off to?

I'm not even arguing for 16 year olds to get the vote, my position is that kids should get civics classes from the first day they enter high school if not earlier, saying they have no interest and then taking away their right to vote until they are 21 does not solve anything but postpone the same uninformed and uninterested voters from voting at an earlier age. If we want our political system to flourish we need to educate young people because they are the future of the country, if they remain uninformed and uninterested in later life then our system starts to breakdown with fewer and fewer people voting and thus controlling the government or massive numbers of those uninformed and uninterested voters will vote based on the way the politician looks compared to their opponent or the ridiculous and unrealistic promises they make.

I'm all for the education part, I just don't think the age should be lowered. I do think things are appreciated more when they don't come easily and reaching a certain level of maturity takes time.. Four of my grand kids are farm kids operating farm machinery, including large tractors long before their 16th

birthdays. That doesn't mean we should be giving them driver's licenses.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Wilber

Signals.Cpl · June 24, 2014

I'm all for the education part, I just don't think the age should be lowered. I do think things are appreciated more when they don't come easily and reaching a certain level of maturity takes time.. Four of my grand kids are farm kids operating farm machinery, including large tractors long before their 16th

birthdays. That doesn't mean we should be giving them driver's licenses.

But it doesn't mean that we should give them licence at 21 either. We are not talking about something that has high requirements in order for you to do, all you are saying is that we should postpone by 2 or 3 years which does nothing.

Wilber · June 24, 2014

But it doesn't mean that we should give them licence at 21 either. We are not talking about something that has high requirements in order for you to do, all you are saying is that we should postpone by 2 or 3 years which does nothing.

You stress education in civics to improve voter qualifications then say none are required. Which is it? I think being politicaly aware and not being able to vote makes one value it more when you finally are able. I know it did for me and I had to wait till I was 21 to vote and legaly drink. I'll keep saying it. Things that come too early or too easily are just not valued as much as those which take time and effort.

Signals.Cpl · June 24, 2014

You stress education in civics to improve voter qualifications then say none are required. Which is it?

Right now? Nothing is required other than reaching a certain age. I would like students to get civics lessons, as well as immigrants as part of their citizenship process to also get civics classes in order to introduce them to the system and make them functioning citizens with regards to elections, voting and the like.

I think being politicaly aware and not being able to vote makes one value it more when you finally are able.

So why not make the voting age 30 or 40? I mean really then we should see 100% turnout since voters would "value" their vote... why would we treat an 18 year old as an adult and let them go to war or serve prison time as an adult but when it comes to politics they are not old enough?

I know it did for me and I had to wait till I was 21 to vote and legaly drink. I'll keep saying it. Things that come too early or too easily are just not valued as much as those which take time and effort.

What kind of effort does it take for an individual to get the right to vote? To get a driver licence you need to reach a certain age, meet time in licence requirements and pass a test, to join the military you need to reach a certain age, pass a number of tests and compete with others for that position whereas to vote you need to reach a certain age... not much effort there. An informed 18 year old beats an uninformed 21 year old any day of the week.