Missing Aboriginal Women Enquiry?

[waldo]

OK let's say the CPC decided to write a cheque to help this issue. Would these Chiefs that make 6 or 7 figure salaries get a piece of that money first? If so then I would oppose. The Feds give the FN community a lot of money. It would appear it's being mis-used by their leadership. Yet legislation to attempt to fix that is seen as racist.

you're already writing the excuses... they just seem to flow quite naturally from you, hey!

[Smallc]

OK let's say the CPC decided to write a cheque to help this issue. Would these Chiefs that make 6 or 7 figure salaries get a piece of that money first? If so then I would oppose. The Feds give the FN community a lot of money. It would appear it's being mis-used by their leadership. Yet legislation to attempt to fix that is seen as racist.

Exactly. Until this issue is fixed, nothing else can be. Money should not flow into a leaky container.

[Smallc]

you're already writing the excuses... they just seem to flow quite naturally from you, hey!

You're the one making excuses. The reality is, most of the aboriginal people being murdered...are being murdered by other aboriginal people. It's not a problem that Stephen Harper can solve.

[waldo]

You're the one making excuses. The reality is, most of the aboriginal people being murdered...are being murdered by other aboriginal people. It's not a problem that Stephen Harper can solve.

so... just criminal actions to you, hey? No underlying causal attachments to that, hey? I don't know what "excuses" you interpret I've made - please enlighten me in that regard.

[waldo]

Exactly. Until this issue is fixed, nothing else can be. Money should not flow into a leaky container.

oh that's right... another excuse! Apparently, inquiry outcomes can't include enforceable due-diligence measures intended to ensure financial accountability!

[Boges]

oh that's right... another excuse! Apparently, inquiry outcomes can't include enforceable due-diligence measures intended to ensure financial accountability!

Do we really need a Royal Commission (3rd in less than 20 years) to ensure "fiscal accountability"?

Edited August 27, 2014 by Boges

[waldo]

Do we really need a Royal Commission (3rd in less than 20 years) to ensure "fiscal accountability"?

you appear to be purposely mixing issues... the current highlight on the salaries of some FN chiefs is not your cover in this regard. Again, the outcome of an inquiry can be tailored to ensure financial outlay to address remedies is fully accountable... fully tracked... fully measured. What's your next excuse?

[Boges]

Again, the outcome of an inquiry can be tailored to ensure financial outlay to address remedies is fully accountable... fully tracked.

I'm sure if the CPC did that they'd be called racist.

[TimG]

Jeffery Simpson (no fan of Harper) agrees that an inquiry serves no purpose and is just political posturing:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/posturing-is-the-only-reason-for-an-inquiry/article20211559/

In 2013, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police produced a report into missing and murdered aboriginal women going back to 1980. The Mounties combed through their files, consulted other research and offered a thorough and balanced assessment of the evidence.

What a public inquiry could add to that inquiry is hard to fathom, except to provide a platform for those with political agendas. Plenty of more suitable platforms already exist for the expression of these agendas.

[GostHacked]

So, you're saying we have a group that is concerned with a problem that may not be as serious as it appears, with politicians looking to take advantage of the situation. That sounds like many issues that we deal with in other areas of governance too.

Maybe check some of the other 'serious' threads here and see how others have responded. If you are going to jump on segnosaur, you should be jumping on all of those others that make comments that are similar in nature.

[waldo]

Jeffery Simpson (no fan of Harper) agrees that an inquiry serves no purpose and is just political posturing:

there sure are a lot of apologists reaching for that RCMP report... the report that, to be expected, has a criminal focus in regards statistics given a criminal attachment! I note this journalist states, "Although the report does not say so directly, the data strongly suggest". Perhaps this journalist could be relied upon to take his suggestions, apply underlying causal attachments, and bring forward his "strongly suggested" remedies. I'm sure it would carry weight!

[waldo]

I asked you for your next excuse! Thanks for replying, in kind.

I'm sure if the CPC did that they'd be called racist.

[Argus]

really? No inquiry necessary, you say? Nothing to be learned since 1996... since 1999? Really?

Nope. Except for those on the Left to wring their hands and cry crocodile tears and blame Harper for it all.

The reason why Harper doesn't want anything to do with this is it's a no-win issue. The issues involving natives are insoluable without native assistance, which no government is going to get. The Conservatives spent years trying to put together an education initiative for reserves, managed to get agreement from lots of chiefs and their leadership, then saw it all collapse due to inter tribal politics among the HUNDREDS of native leaders.

Everyone knows why there's higher crime among natives. Because of the vicious cycle of poverty and alcohol/drug abuse on reserves. These reserves are scattered all over the country, often with 'first nations' of no more than 50-100 people on them, out in the bush, nowhere near jobs, living on welfare. Their houses are crap because they aren't maintained. They aren't maintined, often enough, because band 'chiefs' have other things to do with the money, like lining their pockets and the pockets of their friends and family. There are few or no opportunities for young people, who are born to parents who are often drug and alcohol abusers. These young people wind up getting involved in drug and alcohol abuse, as well as sex from an early age in an often violent society, often beaten by parents, often born with fetal alcohol syndrom. Some of them leave, hoping for better. But they go out into the cities with no job skills, little education, and no connections, and wind up falling in with criminals, doing more drugs and getting drunk.

How can any government do anything about that without taking a chain saw to native leadership and making massive changes to how natives are governed, and where they live? And you can be sure that there is no way the govenrment would be able to get any real agreement from the HUNDREDS of first nations chiefs, who can rarely agree on the time of day, and who only seem to want one thing from the government; more money.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Argus

[Black Dog]

Exactly. Until this issue is fixed, nothing else can be. Money should not flow into a leaky container.

So what's the federal government planning on doing to fix the issue?

[Boges]

So what's the federal government planning on doing to fix the issue?

Would making the salaries of chiefs public not force them to be more accountable? Of course JT doesn't like that law.

[cybercoma]

of course I've read it... particularly the point about nothing having been done in almost 20 years (based on the first inquiry/report). Do you think, perhaps..... another inquiry, a timely current one, might bring forward better/improved understandings based on more current data? Do you think there might be a chance the impetus of a high profile inquiry might... just might... spur a government forward to, this time, actually initiate changes... particularly given this Harper Conservative government chooses to ignore any sociological factors/influence... chooses to simply dismiss the situation as criminal in nature?

No. I think an inquiry will line the pockets of people that make money studying First Nations. I also know, first hand at that, that the First Nations are sick of people doing studies, only to do nothing about it. The last thing we need is another inquiry to tell us about the systemic and structural disadvantages that haven't changed in 20 years and that we continue to do nothing about. We don't need another inquiry. We don't need more time to reflect and understand the problems. We know what the problems are. They've been studied over and over again. It's time now to do something about it. But if you want to call for more studies while aboriginal First Nations people continue to face a disproportionate level of violence, fill your boots. I say we know what's wrong and every second we spend not fixing the problem is willful negligence in these people's deaths.

[Smallc]

So what's the federal government planning on doing to fix the issue?

What can they do? Anything that they do is seen as paternalistic. It's insolvable at current.

[cybercoma]

You're the one making excuses. The reality is, most of the aboriginal people being murdered...are being murdered by other aboriginal people. It's not a problem that Stephen Harper can solve.

Of course it is a problem that the government can solve. This isn't individual on individual crimes. You're as bad as Harper with his ideological war against sociology. As long as people continue to put their heads in the sand and pretend like there's no such thing as structural and systemic problems, nothing will ever get fixed. You want a good explanation of exactly why Harper is a part of the broader problem, read here: http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/08/26/the_ideological_roots_of_stephen_harpers_vendetta_against_sociology.html

[cybercoma]

Waldo, an inquiry does nothing. It researches the problem and produces a report that makes suggestions. These are suggestions that have been made many times over and over again. You seem to think that an inquiry is going to actually DO something. That's not the purpose of these inquiries. We don't need another one. What Harper needs to do is buck up and work towards implementing the recommendations already made.

[Remiel]

If Harper were concerned about "winning" the situation, then from what justification to his moronic statements that are not dependent on the efficacy of an inquiry come from?

[Black Dog]

Would making the salaries of chiefs public not force them to be more accountable? Of course JT doesn't like that law.

Even if it did, does that solve any of the other social ills?

What can they do? Anything that they do is seen as paternalistic. It's insolvable at current.

Sounds like excuse-making to me.

[Boges]

Even if it did, does that solve any of the other social ills?

Like with anything, aren't the solutions more money. Can't take the alcohol away, can't force businesses to give them jobs.

[Black Dog]

Like with anything, aren't the solutions more money. Can't take the alcohol away, can't force businesses to give them jobs.

So you're literally arguing that throwing money at the problems will help it.

Huh.

[Boges]

So you're literally arguing that throwing money at the problems will help it.

Huh.

That's what the recommendations of the previous commission was, how has the situation changed?

[Black Dog]

That's what the recommendations of the previous commission was, how has the situation changed?

I think you're grossly oversimplifying the conclusions of that report.

Among RCAP's main recommendations was an Aboriginal Nation Recognition and Government Act to establish "a process and criteria for the recognition of each Aboriginal nation, acknowledge its immediate jurisdiction over 'core issues' within its existing territories, and provide interim fiscal arrangements to help finance self-government."

It also recommended an Aboriginal Treaties Implementation Act to enable "a recognized Aboriginal nation, in negotiation with other Canadian governments, to renew its existing treaties or create new treaties to establish its full jurisdiction as a member of an Aboriginal order of government and establish or expand its land and resource base to foster self-sufficiency and create a home for its people."

An Aboriginal Parliament Act would establish a body to represent Aboriginal peoples within federal governing institutions and advise Parliament on matters affecting Aboriginal people. Eventually, this would lead to "a House of First Peoples to take a place in the governing of the country alongside the House of Commons and the Senate."

The Commission called for "restorative justice by which we mean the obligation to relinquish control of that which has been unjustly appropriated: the authority of Aboriginal nations to govern their own affairs; control of lands and resources essential to the livelihood of families and communities; and jurisdiction over education, child welfare and community services. As well, there needs to be "corrective justice, eliminating the disparities in economic base and individual and collective well-being that have resulted from unjust treatment in the past."

Those are just some of the conclusions. How much progress is the Harper government making on those?