Harper Government Ignoring Aboriginals

monty16 · May 13, 2014

Thank god we intervined in serbia, saves 100,000 or more lives. could have saved more in rwanda if chretien did not send a paper general to command that operation. And when are people going to have the courage to tell the natives , we are tired of the BS. The taxpayer has given enough money to the natives to look after everyone, but because of the chiefs and band councils, most have nothing while the few on top have it all. And why is that, why is the left so scare to call out the natives???

We don't 'call out' the natives in Canada because we're not all racists who hate them. And we try to take a socially responsible on the issue, as well as many other issues.

As for Kosovo, did you know that the mass graves of ethnic Albanians never did get unearthed or even found? I think the best they ever did was to find a grave of about 20 that contained bodies of mixed ethnic origin. Check that out and let us know how you do. In order to do that your heart will have to be in it!

Your criticism of D'allaire is disgusting.

TimG · May 13, 2014

That is a shameful statement Tim.

Why? What I said is true. Atleo was trying to be constructive but was forced out because the buffoons that run the the various native bands are more interested in protecting their privileges than solving problems for their people. The government can't negotiate with people who are not interested in solving problems.

monty16 · May 13, 2014

That is a shameful statement Tim.

We mostly accomplish our mission if all we do is milk that sort of bigotry out of them.

overthere · May 13, 2014

The education of other Canadians isn't his responsibility. Theirs shouldn't be either, but so is the system we have.

Its an example that contradicts your claim that he is treating aborginals the same as other Canadians.

Until now, other PMs have resisted their responsibility to reform education in First Nations.

The taxpayer has given enough money to the natives to look after everyone, but because of the chiefs and band councils, most have nothing while the few on top have it all. And why is that, why is the left so scare to call out the natives???

That is smply untrue. Conditions on reserves and in First Nations communities vary wildly. Some have excellent leadership, some have terrible leadership.

None of them suffer from leaders as badly as the cartoon playing now in Toronto. Thats a publicly funded cartoon, innit?

Smallc · May 13, 2014

Its an example that contradicts your claim that he is treating aborginals the same as other Canadians.

.

He would love to treat them all the same. This reform goes a long way towards equalizing education. That's why most new treaties involve things like income tax, property ownership, etc. it's about slowly moving aboriginals into the mainstream.

overthere · May 13, 2014

Why? What I said is true. Atleo was trying to be constructive but was forced out because the buffoons that run the the various native bands are more interested in protecting their privileges than solving problems for their people. The government can't negotiate with people who are not interested in solving problems.

Because it is a racist and divisive to assume that because one negotiation faltered and the other side fired their negotiator that the problems should be dismissed and never be addressed again. Let me add childish to those adjectives. We'll leave shameful in place.

I'll remind you that the current situation comes after 150 years of broken promises, treaty defaults and overt attempts to both isolate and destroy the people who we took this land from.

So far they persistently refuse to simply die.

I know that breaks a few hearts here, but oh well.

overthere · May 13, 2014

.

He would love to treat them all the same. This reform goes a long way towards equalizing education. That's why most new treaties involve things like income tax, property ownership, etc. it's about slowly moving aboriginals into the mainstream.

No, if Harper wanted to treat all the same, there would be far more draconian measures like unilaterally abrogating all treaties, repealing the Indian Act(as Trudeau Sr tried to do and failed), and refusing to speak to anybody in the AFN. Once they get this little buntoss over Atleo out fo the way, they'll be back at the table.

Instead, the education bill and plenty o'cash is another step in the pretty longterm (started 25 years ago or thereabouts) policies of devolution of power to First Nations governments. This trend is totally obvious in the North. The physical federal presence has shrunk dramatically, the territorial govts are treading water, and all the fed money has gone directly to another level- First Nations govts. Its really a big deal there, local First Nations govt is a major employer in many places now.

Its the same in the provinces, but city folk don't see it so much because nearly all of the change comes outside cities.

Smallc · May 13, 2014

Harper can't do that. It's unconstitutional. Only call things can be done.

TimG · May 13, 2014

Because it is a racist and divisive to assume that because one negotiation faltered and the other side fired their negotiator that the problems should be dismissed and never be addressed again.

Yawn. Stopping labeling opinions you disagree with as racist. The education failure is latest in an string of failures. I have seen no evidence that most native leaders have any interest in constructive solutions. All they want is lots of money with no strings attached and when the money fails to solve the problems they will just demand more money.

I'll remind you that the current situation comes after 150 years of broken promises, treaty defaults and overt attempts to both isolate and destroy the people who we took this land from.

*We* did not take anything from anyone. The Europeans moved in over 200 years ago an incorporated existing aboriginal societies into a new legal framework which provided aboriginals with certain rights. In the past these rights were ignored but those issues have be largely corrected by the courts. The main issue now is the difference between what aboriginals think their rights are and what the government believes those rights are. Edited May 13, 2014 by TimG

Army Guy · May 13, 2014

Because it is a racist and divisive to assume that because one negotiation faltered and the other side fired their negotiator that the problems should be dismissed and never be addressed again. Let me add childish to those adjectives. We'll leave shameful in place.

I'll remind you that the current situation comes after 150 years of broken promises, treaty defaults and overt attempts to both isolate and destroy the people who we took this land from.

So far they persistently refuse to simply die.

I know that breaks a few hearts here, but oh well.

I'm just curious as to how much this will cost if we settled a 150 years of broken promises....Perhaps this number is so large that itself is why there has been no major action or settlement. And once this is all done, where does that leave us, and FN's ,

Half the problem is we and i mean both sides have created to separate classes of people, this will not stop until we are all equal.

monty16 · May 13, 2014

Any comments that I deem racist will be reported as such. I think that some people have already stepped too far over the line. The administrator of this forum may not agree with me and neglect to say so but that isn't going to influence my decision to continue to report it for what it is.

And that's not to suggest any prior experience I've had with this forum's administration.

PIK · May 13, 2014

We don't 'call out' the natives in Canada because we're not all racists who hate them. And we try to take a socially responsible on the issue, as well as many other issues.

As for Kosovo, did you know that the mass graves of ethnic Albanians never did get unearthed or even found? I think the best they ever did was to find a grave of about 20 that contained bodies of mixed ethnic origin. Check that out and let us know how you do. In order to do that your heart will have to be in it!

Your criticism of D'allaire is disgusting.

Tell that to the belgians. D'allaire mental problems had more to do with his failure as a commander then what he had seen over there. I respect the guy but he was the wrong person to send over there. If he did what most expirenced commanders would have done ,the killing might never have happened. But I suspect you have no idea what really happened over there , but since he was chretien's general he can't do no wrong.

PIK · May 13, 2014

Because it is a racist and divisive to assume that because one negotiation faltered and the other side fired their negotiator that the problems should be dismissed and never be addressed again. Let me add childish to those adjectives. We'll leave shameful in place.

I'll remind you that the current situation comes after 150 years of broken promises, treaty defaults and overt attempts to both isolate and destroy the people who we took this land from.

So far they persistently refuse to simply die.

I know that breaks a few hearts here, but oh well.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Atleo was ousted by the guys he beat in the election and those guys want the money to go directly to them, so they can decide where it goes.Which means the schools will see very little of it.

PIK · May 13, 2014

Any comments that I deem racist will be reported as such. I think that some people have already stepped too far over the line. The administrator of this forum may not agree with me and neglect to say so but that isn't going to influence my decision to continue to report it for what it is.

And that's not to suggest any prior experience I've had with this forum's administration.

So free speech is a problem for you, never say boo about the native, the poor misunderstood native. Why do you hate natives for??? The old way of doing thing kept the native people living in ramshackle skacks while the band council stole everything they could get their hands on.

overthere · May 13, 2014

I'm just curious as to how much this will cost if we settled a 150 years of broken promises....Perhaps this number is so large that itself is why there has been no major action or settlement. And once this is all done, where does that leave us, and FN's ,

Half the problem is we and i mean both sides have created to separate classes of people, this will not stop until we are all equal.

I also wonder what it will cost not to settle. I don't think the settlement involves just money or land.

Perhaps a bit of sincere respect would go a long way too.

TimG · May 13, 2014

I also wonder what it will cost not to settle. I don't think the settlement involves just money or land. Perhaps a bit of sincere respect would go a long way too.

Respect is a two way street. I have not heard much respect coming from the mouths of native activists like Pam Palmater.

I believe there is a fair solution out there that addresses historical wrongs but the real barrier is the entrenched native leadership with their grossly inflated sense of entitlement and not from the governments.

Edited May 13, 2014 by TimG

PIK · May 13, 2014

Respect is a two way street. I have not heard much respect coming from the mouths of native activists like Pam Palmater.

I believe there is a fair solution out there that addresses historical wrongs but the real barrier is the entrenched native leadership with their grossly inflated sense of entitlement and not from the governments.

Great post.

WWWTT · May 13, 2014

To-day, the UN released a scathing report on the way the Harper government has been treating aboriginals. United Nations envoy says there’s a crisis in Canada when it comes to how aboriginal people in this country are treated, noting that the relationship between the federal government and indigenous peoples is even more strained than a decade ago.

Is this report accurate?

How are they treating them? Why not link to the report? You keep doing this.

Shady is right.

I'm not going to get involved with this thread because you are asking if this report is accurate, and you do not even provide a link to the report?!?!?!?!

WWWTT

guyser · May 13, 2014

I'm just curious as to how much this will cost if we settled a 150 years of broken promises....

The cost would have been immensely less had we bit the bullet and settled these claims 10 yrs, 20 yrs ago.

Now every single day the cost rises, and no govt has seen fit to do a damn thing about it.

Tic toc tic toc

Argus · May 13, 2014

Any comments that I deem racist will be reported as such. I think that some people have already stepped too far over the line. The administrator of this forum may not agree with me and neglect to say so but that isn't going to influence my decision to continue to report it for what it is

If only we had more such brave and noble people as you. You are a man among men, a towering figure of majesty and stern righteousness!

Argus · May 13, 2014

The cost would have been immensely less had we bit the bullet and settled these claims 10 yrs, 20 yrs ago.

Now every single day the cost rises, and no govt has seen fit to do a damn thing about it.

Tic toc tic toc

Are you willing to give up your house to make amends for something done two hundred years ago?

Remiel · May 13, 2014

Too much of what people seek to get out of historical injustice is spawned from the same flawed (and rather obscene) thinking that created serfdom: that a debt incurred by one can be passed down through an indefinite number of generations.

That said: much of what was done wrong on the indigenous file was done within living memory. There is no way around that. But absurdly some of the costliest things date back to before anyone on Earth was even conceived.

guyser · May 13, 2014

Are you willing to give up your house to make amends for something done two hundred years ago?

No way.

Yours? In a second.

No one need give up anything but the govt and some money.

I dont like it anymore than anyone else, but we need to get this done and over with and then all that pontificating youve done can be greenlit.

Smallc · May 13, 2014

The claims exceed the total value of the Canadian economy...the payment would bankrupt the country and solve nothing.

TimG · May 13, 2014

The claims exceed the total value of the Canadian economy...the payment would bankrupt the country and solve nothing.

The problem is many natives are demanding that non-natives be reduced to serfs paying rent (via taxes) on land which belongs to them. There is no way any democratically elected government can agree to such terms. So people saying that 'it should have been resolved decades ago' are simply naive. Edited May 13, 2014 by TimG