Pro Life? Then Don't Run Under Liberal Banner

[Argus]

Wow JT really showed leadership by allowing a Pro-Life MP to call him a Bozo and say that if him and his handlers actually thought this policy through, it's a terrifying thought.

BTW why is JT allowing John McKay in his party? he clearly hates women because he doesn't want them to have the autonomy over their body to kill the fetus growing inside them.

It's the JT party? I thought it was the Liberal Party. Did Trudeau buy it or something?

[Boges]

It's the JT party? I thought it was the Liberal Party. Did Trudeau buy it or something?

He can certainly kick people out of caucus and prevent other people from running.

[Argus]

Father wasn't interested in being found, didn't want custody or child support payments.

Father dumped the child and ran away and hid.

Happens all the time.

Father was never told. Happens all the time too.

[Argus]

He can certainly kick people out of caucus and prevent other people from running.

He can kick people out of caucus for being pro life when they were elected to that caucus several times by an eletorate that knew they were pro life? What other rules can he change and then immeidately evict people from caucus for? Suppose he says no Liberal candidates will be accepted if they're not fluently bilingual? Can he then eject all the unilingual MPs from "his" caucus? I mean, support for bilingualism is a party plank, after all...

Edited May 28, 2014 by Argus

[Boges]

He can kick people out of caucus for being pro life when they were elected to that caucus several times by an eletorate that knew they were pro life? What other rules can he change and then immeidately evict people from caucus for? Suppose he says no Liberal candidates will be accepted if they're not fluently bilingual? Can he then eject all the unilingual MPs from "his" caucus? I mean, support for bilingualism is a party plank, after all...

Why not? He kicked Liberal Senators out of caucus for being Senators.

[jacee]

Since women have complete control over whether or not they become a mother, I would like to see similar options for men.

My point was this: If men don't like their options once they get a woman pregnant, then men should stop expecting women to take responsibility for contraception, and protect themselves.

Use a good quality condom

that won't break

even if she says she's on the pill, etc.

Edited May 28, 2014 by jacee

[Keepitsimple]

This thread is dying an ugly death. It was never about condoms, pills, or men's responsibilities - it was about Trudeau's judgement - his arbitrary edict to the Liberal Party. I think everyone has beat that to death - and only time, polls and ultimately an election will determine whether this will be a stroke of brilliance, a tempest in a teapot - or a major gash in a death of a thousand cuts. Time to move along.

[Bob Macadoo]

This thread is dying an ugly death. It was never about condoms, pills, or men's responsibilities - it was about Trudeau's judgement - his arbitrary edict to the Liberal Party. I think everyone has beat that to death - and only time, polls and ultimately an election will determine whether this will be a stroke of brilliance, a tempest in a teapot - or a major gash in a death of a thousand cuts. Time to move along.

Hear. Hear. Either it's a non-event or it'll base your vote choice. I believe the former.....but to make it his defining moment is hyperbole.

[Argus]

Hear. Hear. Either it's a non-event or it'll base your vote choice. I believe the former.....but to make it his defining moment is hyperbole.

I wouldn't say it's a defining moment, but in combination with his high-handed behavior on the senator issue, it's certainly an indication that he doesn't believe his caucus needs to be consulted, or even informed about important decisions.

They can watch the news like everyone else after all...

[jacee]

I wouldn't say it's a defining moment, but in combination with his high-handed behavior on the senator issue, it's certainly an indication that he doesn't believe his caucus needs to be consulted, or even informed about important decisions.

They can watch the news like everyone else after all...

It does raise the interesting question of whether a candidate for a particular party has to agree to endorse particular party policies. I'm not a fan of lock-step control of our representatives, but at the same time, if a candidate doesn't stand for the party policies, what are they doing in the party?

JT is a lot like his Dad ... all love and peace until his authority is challenged, then knee-jerk autocratic.

.

[cybercoma]

My point was this: If men don't like their options once they get a woman pregnant, then men should stop expecting women to take responsibility for contraception, and protect themselves.

Use a good quality condom

that won't break

even if she says she's on the pill, etc.

You fail to see where this logic leads still....

If women don't like the option of illegal abortions once they get pregnant, then women should take responsibility for contraception, and protect themselves.

Use a good quality birth control

that won't fail

even if her partner uses a condom, etc.

[Keepitsimple]

You fail to see where this logic leads still....

If women don't like the option of illegal abortions once they get pregnant, then women should take responsibility for contraception, and protect themselves.

Use a good quality birth control

that won't fail

even if her partner uses a condom, etc.

Time to move along........

[cybercoma]

Time to move along........

Then move along.

[jacee]

You fail to see where this logic leads still....

If women don't like the option of illegal abortions once they get pregnant, then women should take responsibility for contraception, and protect themselves.

Use a good quality birth control

that won't fail

even if her partner uses a condom, etc.

Typically women do take responsibility for contraception, and for abortion or childbirth.

I was responding to the male complaint of not having a say if protection fails or 'she says' she's on birth control. It bugs me that men whine about that and blame women, when it is within their control to wrap it up securely and take some responsibility for contraception themselves.

No birth control method is completely foolproof.

(I get where you're coming from, but that's not where I'm going at all, of course.)

Edited May 29, 2014 by jacee

[cybercoma]

I'm saying that your logic for men applies equally to women for people who want t ban abortion.

[WestCoastRunner]

If women don't like the option of illegal abortions once they get pregnant, then women should take responsibility for contraception, and protect themselves.

Use a good quality birth control

that won't fail

There is no such thing as a 'good quality birth control that won't fail' unless it is absenteeism which is quite simply, not achievable for healthy adults seeking intimate relationships.

Unplanned pregnancies happen all the time, even with the best intentions of both parties practicing safe sex, birth control etc. Women take on the full responsibility of pregnancy, birth, nursing etc. Until men bear that responsibility, women should be the ultimate decision maker whether to go forward or ultimately end the pregnancy.

[jacee]

I'm saying that your logic for men applies equally to women for people who want t ban abortion.

My logic is that men who don't want to pay child support should make every effort to not get a woman pregnant, rather than leaving everything up to her and then whining about having "no choice".

I think that's enough thread drift.

[WestCoastRunner]

My logic is that men who don't want to pay child support should make every effort to not get a woman pregnant, rather than leaving everything up to her and then whining about having "no choice".

I think that's enough thread drift.

I don't think it's thread drift at all. The issue JT is addressing is abortion.

[cybercoma]

There is no such thing as a 'good quality birth control that won't fail' unless it is absenteeism which is quite simply, not achievable for healthy adults seeking intimate relationships.

Unplanned pregnancies happen all the time, even with the best intentions of both parties practicing safe sex, birth control etc. Women take on the full responsibility of pregnancy, birth, nursing etc. Until men bear that responsibility, women should be the ultimate decision maker whether to go forward or ultimately end the pregnancy.

But the point Argus and others have made is that women and women alone can also decide not to take those responsibilities by ending their pregnancies. Men have no choice once contraception fails. They're required to pay. How do we reconcile that with the view that all women have the right to decide when they will be pregnant?

[jacee]

But the point Argus and others have made is that women and women alone can also decide not to take those responsibilities by ending their pregnancies. Men have no choice once contraception fails. They're required to pay. How do we reconcile that with the view that all women have the right to decide when they will be pregnant?

Who said that?

I said a man has the right/responsibility to decide whether or not he will impregnate a woman.

Edited May 29, 2014 by jacee

[cybercoma]

Look. It's not hard to understand what I'm saying. Your point is EXACTLY the point prolifers make for banning abortion.

[jbg]

Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau has just declared that all candidates running for nomination to represent the Liberal Party in 2015 will have to support the party's pro-choice position, but that the same rule does not apply to sitting MPs.

I guess the Liberal party is doing so well it can chase away potential supporters.

[jacee]

Look. It's not hard to understand what I'm saying. Your point is EXACTLY the point prolifers make for banning abortion.

That's not what I'm addressing.

[cybercoma]

That's not what I'm addressing.

you're addressing men's responsibilities with the same arguments people use to say women have a responsibility to stay pregnant. I'm trying to show you that the argument shouldn't fly in either case.

[jacee]

you're addressing men's responsibilities with the same arguments people use to say women have a responsibility to stay pregnant. I'm trying to show you that the argument shouldn't fly in either case.

I'm saying that men and women both have a responsibility to try to prevent unwanted pregnancy.

Not sure why that's such a problem to you.

I really don't care how anti-abortionist fanatics might twist words.

.