Another sad reason to get rid of every pitbull.

[Michael Hardner]

I wouldn't argue that dogs have any rights. I'm just talking about the thought process involved in the demonization of these animals.

The difference is there's no downside to generalizing about whether a breed of dog is good or bad. Doing so about groups of humans is unfair to them.

[GostHacked]

Okay... most pit bulls are nice. Meaning ? Only up to 49% of them will try to rip your throat out.

Hey it only takes 51% for a democracy. Nice shot at the numbers though. At least it was not facetious at all.

I'm not interested. They're a sort of thug accessory from what I can see. Nobody is hurt by banning them, and if one kid is saved every few years then that's a win for me.

Your loss, as I said, I know some real friendly pitbulls. I know two cases so far where parents have accidentally run over their kids. So un-attentive parents are about as deadly as pitbulls.

[GostHacked]

The difference is there's no downside to generalizing about whether a breed of dog is good or bad. Doing so about groups of humans is unfair to them.

It's unfair to the dogs as well. And judging by your reactions to some of my posts, you are not one for generalizations.

[GostHacked]

That's the great thing about this issue - it's not about reason, it's pretty much pure emotion. Those dogs terrify me, so I don't want them around period.

Well at least this is getting to the truth. You have no real basis for your fear except what is reported in the media, which usually likes to over sensationalize the story. Your scared and the media played a part in your fear. And you know you are not being rational in your though process, but that is how you have been conditioned.

[Boges]

Still no one refuting stats that say every 14 days someone in North America is killed by a Pitt Bull. That sensationalizing?

[GostHacked]

Still no one refuting stats that say every 14 days someone in North America is killed by a Pitt Bull. That sensationalizing?

At least 14 people are killed every day via car crashes. At least 14 people are killed every day by firearms. Let's put this into some perspective.

[Boges]

At least 14 people are killed every day via car crashes. At least 14 people are killed every day by firearms. Let's put this into some perspective.

If it was found out that people were exponentially more likely to die in a Ford than any other car, I'd imagine transportation agencies would have something to say about that.

Heck The US Congress hauled the head of GM in front of them because 13 people died because of a sometimes faulty ignition switch.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Boges

[eyeball]

Heck The US Congress hauled the head of GM in front of them because 13 people died because of a sometimes faulty ignition switch.

They hauled in the head of GM because he's responsible for ensuring the cars he sells are safe, in the same way the person who unleashes his/her dog is responsible for ensuring it's safe to do so.

[Boges]

They hauled in the head of GM because he's responsible for ensuring the cars he sells are safe, in the same way the person who unleashes his/her dog is responsible for ensuring it's safe to do so.

It's a her.

How about you hold the breeders responsible like you hold the auto manufacturers? They're creating dogs that are exponentially more dangerous than other dogs.

[eyeball]

Fine by me, focusing on people and encouraging breeders to breed tamer dogs that are not aggressive towards people makes sense to me.

[Boges]

Fine by me, focusing on people and encouraging breeders to breed tamer dogs that are not aggressive towards people makes sense to me.

Well that's essentially what a breed ban is. Stop Breeding these types of dogs.

[Michael Hardner]

Well at least this is getting to the truth. You have no real basis for your fear except what is reported in the media,

That's pretty presumptuous of you. Why do you say that ?

The media plays no part in my fear of dogs. Also, I can still think critically about other aspects of the issue, such as the limp attempt to equate it to some kind of dog-racism.

It's unfair to the dogs as well.

As I said, there's no downside to being unfair or biased about dogs - at least none that I can think of.

[Michael Hardner]

Let's put this into some perspective.

Right. So you have led us to this question then: what is more valuable to society - having cars or pit bulls ?

[Michael Hardner]

Hey it only takes 51% for a democracy. Nice shot at the numbers though. At least it was not facetious at all.

I'm not the one who used the term "most".

Your loss, as I said, I know some real friendly pitbulls. I know two cases so far where parents have accidentally run over their kids. So un-attentive parents are about as deadly as pitbulls.

You're doing a cost-benefit analysis here but you're not weighing benefits.

[guyser]

The media plays no part in my fear of dogs.

Ok,

Why do you fear all dogs?

[Michael Hardner]

Why do you fear all dogs?

I had a dog attack me quite viciously. I don't see the benefit of having dogs like that around.

[eyeball]

Only a very few people would see the benefit of having a vicious dog around and the cost of only going after those who do compared to going after the vast majority who pose no such risk should be obvious.

[guyser]

I had a dog attack me quite viciously. I don't see the benefit of having dogs like that around.

Ok, thanks for the reply.

[Rue]

Angus you are dead wrong and I am going to try explain why conceding immediately that there is no true "lock jaw" and what I was referring to is a strong jaw grip that can not be easily opened once the dog clamps down.

Syringomyelia is in fact the condition caused by intensive breeding which can result in the dog’s skull being too small for its brain. This has a severe impact on the dog’s health causing the animal severe pain and headaches and can make it prone to sudden vicious attacks on people.

This condition for example is so high with King Charles Spaniels, a wonderful dog, it is crucial people who buy such dogs only get them from credible breeders.

This condition also happens when humans in-breed.

The severe pain and headaches will make such dogs highly dangerous-they suddenly attack.

This is one of the most pressing issues with the so called "Pit Bull" which is not a breed of dog but is in fact a mix of several breeds.

Depending on who bred it, and what genetic traits it has, it can have this condition and this is suspected as one majro reason some pit bullsd are predispossessed to sudden violent attacks,

This issue was a very real issue in the past with other breeds, in particular doberman pinschers and the mastiff family and in particular saint Bernards.
When a breed gets popular, we run the risk of unethical breeders in mills quickly reproducing puppies en masse of a breed spreading very bad genetic conditions from the inbreeding.

Professional dog breeders and their kennel clubs regulate each other and watch for genetic traits such as syringomyelia or as many people know hip disorders, epilepsy, cancer.

The pit bull is not a specific breed. It is a mix of breeds and depending who each dog is mated with will then determine its propensity for genetic diseases such as:
hip displasia
syringomyelia
epilepsy
deformed spinal cord
cataracts
arthritis
allergies
chronic skin diseases
deformed or malformed hearts
cancer

There is a certain kind of person attracted to pit bulls. They breed them to be violent for dog fights. As they select and breed the dog for aggression that selection inbreeds them and raises all the other chances of degenerative disease. That is not myth that is fact.

However other people are attracted to this breed probably because if they have a lot of American pit bull terrier or staffordshire terrier in them they can be very very friendly, loyal and gentle dogs as those two breeds can be-in fact the exact opposite of the vicious ones some people breed to kill.

It is a fact that pit bulls have a higher rate of genetically inherited diseases I hzve listed precisely because the breeding of pit bulls with siblings can increase the chances that the offspring will inherit the genetic makeup and bone structure that will result in thse debilitating diseases and this is happening with idiots breeding the dogs to kill and be fighters.

The pit bull is not a specific breed. That is the myth.

Pit bull is a genetic word people give to what they think is a particular dog called a pit bull.

In fact what we call pit bulls are a mix of dogs and that mix differs depending on the line of the dog.

What we do know is the following pure breds in any or all combinations have been used to "make" put buls:
Staffordshire bull terrier
American Staffordshire bull terrier
American pit bull terrier (the dog from Spanky and our gang, a dog created to babys it children and known for being gentle)
Bull Terrier
American Bull dog
British Bull dog
French Bull dog
Boston Terrier
Cane Corso
Rottweiler
Boxer

Now in regards to your comment that it is a myth pit bulls do not have lock jaws. Read what I said.

I said certain dogs when bred and are called pit bulls may have inherited the lock jaw.This comes from the British Bull dog's jaw.

How about you do some research on that jaw.

No dog in fact has a locked jaw but the british bull dog jaw clamps down hard and was made precisely tod o that. You can get any dog to open its mouth if you know the right techniques. In fact any breed with a large head and kjaw could have the same dangerous quality of a strong jaw as SOME pit bulls.

Pound per pound the hardest jaw to pry open when a dog is in a frenzy would probably be a British bull dog.

Shepherds, any large headed Mastiff, Rottweillers, Cane Corsos, all can exert as much pressure as a pit bull.

Yes there are hundreds of sites that say its a myth that the jaw of a pit bull locks. No it does not lock like a monkey wrench.

But some mixes of pit bulls have far more powerful jaws than others. Some pit bulls actually have tiny mouths and that is the issue I was making. Some because they were bred with large breeds of the British bull dog have tremendous strength in their jaw and this is why during the heat of an attack they are hard to pull off . They may have thick neck muscles as well.

Often dogs die when attacked by pits because they are known to shake and tear. That has a lot to do with how their owner raised them, what breed characteristics they inherited and what environment they have come from.

So don't try pick a debate with me over whether they have powerful jaws is pointless. Any dog can have a powerful jaw. If the owner knows it has a powerful jaw, they have more of ab obligation to watch it,

For that matter a tiny dog like a chihuahua can do a lot of damage biting.

What I can also say without hesitation and anyone who knows Akitas know what I am saying, if an Akita turns on its hunting attack drive no one human can stop it. This is a dog that can take down a bear by itself.

In fact there are certain breeds of Japanese dogs that are extremely dangerous when provoked with powerful jaws and I think anyone who has an Akita has a dog far more powerful than any Pit Bull. That does not mean I dismiss all Akitas. I met some females as gentle as can be. Amazing temperments. Highly intelligent. It all depends on the owner and how they are raised and of course their line of breeding.

Hunting dogs have soft mouths to carry birds. They can not grip down like other breeds. The shape of the snout, the size of teeth all factor in to how dangerous a dog clamping down will be but we know with the larger headed pit bulls their jaws clamp down and are very hard if not impossible to open unless you have a dog expert around.
I

share anyone's concern about dangerous dogs. I do understand that at the present time, the generic breed we call pit bull attracts idiot owners.

Its a shame because there are gentle pit bulls is what I am saying. In fact I know many gentle ones that are great pets and have been rescused. I have also seen others that have had to be put under and that was sad.

I knew what prize asshole with a female and a younger male. The female was a gentle lamb. The male was as violent and dangerous as they get and he bragged he was breeding it for fighting.

The female was rescued. The male he took off with.

I love dogs obviously. I want people to learn about them and not be afraid of them and talk about them in a constructive way. I am trying to do that in this discussion to assure some of you that they are not all bad. To stop breeding them is difficult since they are not a simple mixed breed.

Michael H I have been attacked by several dogs over the years. I damn near pissed my pants over a doberman protecting his master. Not the dog's fautl. it put a real deep bite in my thigh. I was jogging in the park and running and it got spooked. The owner was in tears. She drove me to the hospital with the dog on my lap. it happens. I was petrified at the time of the attack but I scared the damn dog. It was protecting its owner.

I have had been in a pit bull attack and the scariest attack i saw was an Akita turning on his own owner who kicked him in a park. The dog went right for his neck. The dog was rescued. I have volunteered with some dog rescue organizations. i have two rescues I rehabiltated and I have trained therapy dogs for court work. I know very good dog trainers. I listen to them. They taught me to listen to the dog, pay attention to its energy level, learn its non verbal cues and language. i am no expert. i understand why people can be frightened of them especially once you are attacked. Yes I am frighteend of certain dogs. I do not mean to be a know it all on this subject just defend good dogs including good pit bulls.

[eyeball]

I had a dog attack me quite viciously. I don't see the benefit of having dogs like that around.

Was it a pit bull? I attended to a kid once who's leg was badly bitten by a dog. A gun emerged from the angry mob that had gathered around and the dog was shot on site. I recall the kid wincing even more when that happened. It turned out the kid had been playing with a couple of other kids and a group of three dogs who had long since made themselves scarce. I can't say for sure if they even got the right dog.

[Michael Hardner]

Was it a pit bull?

No - a German Shepherd who just went crazy. My injuries were serious, but I could very easily have been killed or disfigured.

[eyeball]

I've certainly had the crap scared out of me by the odd dog especially when I delivered newspapers. I guess I've walked a few miles in a posties shoes. Interestingly enough I got the bumper-sticker quote I used above from an ex-postie I know who owns the sweetest little female American pit bull I've ever met. It cowers when my friend's cats swat at it.

[jbg]

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Ottawa+toddler+disfigured+bull/9780902/story.html

To many times we read about this one type of dog. And this dog being a problem dog to begin with, it should be put down and the owners charged.I had one of these problem pitbulls lunge at me once but it had a muzzle on it, and if it did not, I would have been in big trouble.

Problem is that other breeds are even worse. Golden retrievers, especially.

[GostHacked]

That's pretty presumptuous of you. Why do you say that ?

Because you are telling me that.

That's the great thing about this issue - it's not about reason, it's pretty much pure emotion. Those dogs terrify me, so I don't want them around period.

You said there is no real reason for you to fear them, yet they terrify you. I am not being presumptuous when you are telling me this.

[Michael Hardner]

Because you are telling me that.

I'm telling you that I "have no real basis for your fear except what is reported in the media" ? Really.

I'm not telling you that. You're making yourself into a mini Sigmund Freud by psychoanalyzing me and telling me that me fear had nothing to do with a full sized dog who put me in the ER but because I overreact to media reports.

That's called presumptuous - ie. making presumptions.