The Purity of Aboriginal Blood? Who cares?

[Wilber]

Magee.

Instead of looking at it as being a minority, if you were lucky enough to have purchased a home back in the day, you'd be a multi millionaire.

PW for me.

My parents did but sold and moved to the Okanagan long before the prices went nuts.

[Argus]

That's a good question. If you bought property in that area and still own it you are laughing all the way to the bank. When I lived there during the sixties it was a regular middle class neighbourhood. Now, an old house on a 60 ft lot in Kerrisdale goes for around 2.5 million. It then gets knocked down to be replaced with a 5000 sq ft mega home. Most of that is due to Asian money.

And if you weren't lucky enough to own property forty years ago?

[Argus]

Magee.

Instead of looking at it as being a minority, if you were lucky enough to have purchased a home back in the day, you'd be a multi millionaire.

Technically, perhaps. But if the only way to get that money is to sell your home, where does that leave you? Homeless with money in the bank?

And since most people are renters, the only benefit they get is the high price of rents now, and house costs so high they can't afford to buy one.

[Wilber]

Technically, perhaps. But if the only way to get that money is to sell your home, where does that leave you? Homeless with money in the bank?

And since most people are renters, the only benefit they get is the high price of rents now, and house costs so high they can't afford to buy one.

Not really. Move up the valley a few miles and buy a nicer home for about 1/5 the cost. It is difficult to get into the market but it always has been. I long ago realized I could never again afford to live in the area I grew up but that's OK because it is now a place I wouldn't want to live anyway. That's life..

[Remiel]

By a lot ? U.S. census data and surveys for self declared Jews and Native Americans puts populations at about the same number...5.5 million.

Gee, I could have sworn there was a country in the Middle East that was filled with Jews.

[kimmy]

You want to invoke genetics in a discussion about preserving a dying race/culture? Fine. But when you say the cultural argument is irrelevant, it's not. The genetic one is in this instance. Context matters.

You may not believe it to be so, but it do. From the original article, I reiterate:

“It’s absolutely vital for us to actively be thinking of keeping our bloodline strong, within all aspects of our life,” said artist Sarain Fox (Ojibwa from Batchewana First Nation).

“That means only dating native, and it means making the decision to only have children with another indigenous person. I think these are things we have an obligation to consider.”

It must take some tricky mental gymnastics to convince yourself that when she says bloodlines, she's referring to something other than bloodlines. Not is she just speaking for herself; she asserts that preserving native bloodlines is an issue that all aboriginal people have an obligation to consider.

And once again, I don't care who she dates or mates with. I simply point out that a statement that would cause discomfort and probably revulsion if it came from a white person has instead somehow inspired approval because it came from a non-white person.

I think we all know that if you present the following statement to somebody who wasn't aware of this discussion...

"It’s absolutely vital for us to actively be thinking of keeping our bloodline strong, within all aspects of our life. That means only dating (blank) and it means making the decision to only have children with another (blank) person. I think these are things we have an obligation to consider."

...they would fill the blanks with "white" and assume that the speaker is a Stormfront white nationalist type.

-k

[WestCoastRunner]

You may not believe it to be so, but it do. From the original article, I reiterate:

It must take some tricky mental gymnastics to convince yourself that when she says bloodlines, she's referring to something other than bloodlines. Not is she just speaking for herself; she asserts that preserving native bloodlines is an issue that all aboriginal people have an obligation to consider.

And once again, I don't care who she dates or mates with. I simply point out that a statement that would cause discomfort and probably revulsion if it came from a white person has instead somehow inspired approval because it came from a non-white person.

I think we all know that if you present the following statement to somebody who wasn't aware of this discussion...

"It’s absolutely vital for us to actively be thinking of keeping our bloodline strong, within all aspects of our life. That means only dating (blank) and it means making the decision to only have children with another (blank) person. I think these are things we have an obligation to consider."

...they would fill the blanks with "white" and assume that the speaker is a Stormfront white nationalist type.

-k

You already responded with this exactly reply??

[WestCoastRunner]

Technically, perhaps. But if the only way to get that money is to sell your home, where does that leave you? Homeless with money in the bank?

And since most people are renters, the only benefit they get is the high price of rents now, and house costs so high they can't afford to buy one.

It leaves you with a few million bucks and the opportunity to retire somewhere else at a much lower cost of living where your dollar goes farther. There are plenty of other places to buy a home in the lower mainland that are much cheaper than Vancouver, like Wilbur mentioned above, the fraser valley.

[kimmy]

You already responded with this exactly reply??

I bumped it because I had assumed it had been overlooked among all the excitement about Jewish dating practices.

-k

[jbg]

You already responded with this exactly reply??

Learn grammar.

[cybercoma]

I bumped it because I had assumed it had been overlooked among all the excitement about Jewish dating practices.

-k

I haven't responded to it because you refuse to acknowledge the difference in social power that white people and red people have. If you're not going to recognize that, then I have nothing to add to the conversation.

[-1=e^ipi]

the difference in social power that white people and red people have.

Can you define 'social power'?

[Smallc]

Further can you explain why it matters when it comes to outmoded ideas?

[kimmy]

I haven't responded to it because you refuse to acknowledge the difference in social power that white people and red people have. If you're not going to recognize that, then I have nothing to add to the conversation.

I acknowledge the residential schools and other historic injustices, and that aboriginal Canadians are afflicted by a plague of social problems, and that for a variety of reasons they have less economic success than other Canadians.

Having agreed to all that, I'm now curious as to how it relates to your claim that this woman isn't talking about race in a genetic sense, when she states in plain language that that's exactly what she's concerned about.

And I remain curious about the contrast between this thread and the earlier thread, where in this thread this person arguing that natives have an obligation to preserve their bloodline is applauded, while in the other thread the general consensus was that the sooner everybody intermixes to a "golden mean", the better.

-k

[cybercoma]

She's interested in status. She wants her children to be Indian, in the fullest legal sense. The reason it's a genetic argument is that the legislation is written that way vis-a-vis a proportion of blood. I'm not totally thrilled with her argument that conflates legal status with culture. There's plenty of Status Indians that have little connection or interest in their heritage. However, I think that's just an issue in the way she wrote the article. I'm assuming she means someone who has Status AND is connected to their culture because she wants her children to have legal status as Indians and be connected to their culture.

How is that different from white people? Because you don't need to ensure that you have a certain proportion of white blood to pass as white. You get the benefits of society, namely not having the drawbacks that you recognize in your post, without having to ensure a racial purity that gives you legal status. You have power in our society without even needing to consider any of these things and that's what I we mean when we talk about 'privilege.'

In short, it's different due to power relationships. Those that don't recognize power relationships can close their eyes and pretend they don't exist and that "reverse racism is still racism." This isn't true and will never be true because racism is always about power. If you want to see racism against white people, move to Japan. Then you can see the difference when landlords refuse to lease to filthy gaijins and lawyers are hesitant to fight for you because you're white. This is exactly what happens to white people living there sometimes.

One thing about the term "privilege," I hate the word. I wish it wasn't called that, but this is my personal opinion. Those who study race relationships and culture in society use it. Why don't I like it? Because white middle class men here are not privileged, it's others who are disadvantaged. They're suffering, as you pointed out in your post. Privilege makes it seem like white middle class men are ahead and should be suffering too, when the fact of the matter is others should be elevated and afforded the same power and status in society.

As for the First Nations, as far apart as I am with Smallc on many things, I agree with him that the legislation around status is racist and probably needs to go. That's where we part ways, however. Because anything that replaces it needs to recognize that this is the First Nations, Aboriginal, and Inuit people's lands and they made particular arrangements with the Crown during the founding of this country.

At the end of the day, this woman is discriminating, but not in a way that others are experiencing undue hardship or excessive oppression as a result. As a First Nations woman she doesn't have that kind of power in society. Regardless, this isn't about her power over others. It's her own personal choice of who to marry. She's just bringing others' attention to the choices that she has to make as a woman and an "Indian" in order to preserve her culture and heritage and for her children to have the benefits of being recognized as "Indians."

[WestCoastRunner]

Learn grammar.

Seriously! You've got to be kidding me. Does this comment make you feel superior at some level?

[jbg]

Seriously! You've got to be kidding me. Does this comment make you feel superior at some level?

I provided a correction. Maybe, however, the Canadian language uses different rules of grammar from English.

[-1=e^ipi]

Those that don't recognize power relationships can close their eyes and pretend they don't exist and that "reverse racism is still racism." This isn't true and will never be true because racism is always about power.

racism - noun- the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Cybercoma denies the very meaning of racism. Racism is racism regardless of which race (if any) it is targeted against. Call it 'reverse racism' if you wish, but it is still racism. How cybercoma is capable of such cognitive dissonance, I will never know. He/she must have a very warped mind.

If you want to see racism against white people, move to Japan. Then you can see the difference when landlords refuse to lease to filthy gaijins and lawyers are hesitant to fight for you because you're white. This is exactly what happens to white people living there sometimes.

This is way unfair to Japan.

[gunrutz]

racism - noun- the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Cybercoma denies the very meaning of racism. Racism is racism regardless of which race (if any) it is targeted against. Call it 'reverse racism' if you wish, but it is still racism. How cybercoma is capable of such cognitive dissonance, I will never know. He/she must have a very warped mind.

This is way unfair to Japan.

There is clearly good and bad racism, i guess.

[cybercoma]

Sorry, but racism is meaningless when you don't consider power relationships. That's why white middle-class men that try to play the victim card look like idiots.

[Smallc]

Racism is never meaningless and always wrong, no matter where it's coming from. Power relationships is a nice phrase to protect minority racists.

[cybercoma]

If racism is not about power, then what is it about? Seriously. You guys can't be this unknowledgeable. Without power, racism has no effect. The entire point of racism is power relationships. Even the most basic understanding of it takes that into account.

[Smallc]

Racism always had an effect. What kind of nonsense is that? Ideas are powerful things, even in small groups, and when negative ideas spread bad things happen.

Racism is very much about the false belief in genetic superiority. You don't need to be the largest most powerful group in a society to spread nonsense and create negative outcomes.

[-1=e^ipi]

If racism is not about power, then what is it about?

It is about treating people differently or discriminating against/for people based on their 'race'.

Racism is very much about the false belief in genetic superiority.

Not all racism has to do with genetic superiority. People that advocate that races should be separate but equal are also racists. Like the comment 'black people should marry black people & white people should marry white people' is racist even though it does not indicate racial superiority.

[cybercoma]

When white people are even remotely as disadvantaged as others in our society then you can cry racism. Until then you look like an insensitive idiot that dismisses the very real experiences of racism that people of colour face when you try to say white people are also facing racism. White racism never disadvantages white people. They are born with every advantage our society offers. Claiming that you face racism is utterly and completely wrong. You don't even know what racism is, if you think there's such a thing as white racism in North America.