eyeball Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 So, in the wake of story in the news about foreign workers and McDonalds the pay scale at a small factory where I live was raised to the same rate it's foreign workers were getting - they still get almost all the overtime though apparently. I overheard a few domestic workers refer to the foreign workers as the boss' bitches. The socio-economic toxicity that the foreign worker program that Canada's oligarchs have instituted has disaster written all over it. I really feel for the FW's, nobody deserves to be the shit in a crappy sandwich they had no hand in making. They should all be made into citizens like any other worker in this country - we should definitely all be part of the same union. Like I said I wouldn't stand too close to that. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Moonlight Graham Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 From wikipedia: Oligarchy, meaning "to rule or to command") is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with a small number of people. These people could be distinguished by royalty, wealth, family ties, education, corporate, or military control. Such states are often controlled by a few prominent families who typically pass their influence from one generation to the next, but inheritance is not a necessary condition for the application of this term. "Jeb Bush leads 2016 GOP presidential field, UVA’s Center for Politics says" and "Hillary Clinton edges closer to announcing presidential run in 2016" ....Sasha and Malia Obama ticket in 2050! Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Michael Hardner Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 "Jeb Bush leads 2016 GOP presidential field, UVA’s Center for Politics says" and "Hillary Clinton edges closer to announcing presidential run in 2016" ....Sasha and Malia Obama ticket in 2050! Bushes, Clintons and Doles on the Ticket since 1976 assuming Bush-Clinton win the nominations in 2015: 1976: Dole VP 1980: Bush VP 1984: Bush VP 1988: Bush Pres 1992: Bush, Clinton Pres 1996: Clinton, Dole Pres 2000: Bush Pres 2004: Bush Pres 2016: Bush, Clinton Pres 2008 and 2012 we had a Kenyan outsider... way outsider as he didn't even belong to the 3 ruling families, or 'great houses' using Game of Thrones speak. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
GostHacked Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 Oligarchy is not a proper term for the USA. Corporate fascism is more appropriate. Quote
Argus Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 Oligarchy is not a proper term for the USA. Corporate fascism is more appropriate. You must have an interestingly broad definition of the term Fascism. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
GostHacked Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) You must have an interestingly broad definition of the term Fascism. Fascism has a broad definition. 'Corporate fascism' is a more defined term. Sometimes called corporatism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism Combination of corporate and state powers. If the USA had a true form of capitalism, then you would have seen GM fail and other big banks completely fail. Corporations dictate how things are in the USA, not the so called 'elected' government. Edited April 16, 2014 by GostHacked Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted April 19, 2014 Report Posted April 19, 2014 I'll read through the article to see if the methodology is correct. Though I am skeptical that the results cannot be explained by a combination of a stagnant political system & a stupid/uninformed voting public. Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted April 19, 2014 Report Posted April 19, 2014 Read the entire paper. I have many comments but I will post them later (no time right now). I think many people in the thread are reading too much into the 'results' of the paper. Quote
iolo Posted April 19, 2014 Report Posted April 19, 2014 Why have elections? Well, obviously, because otherwise the control of the State by the thieves would be obvious enough to cause comment or even opposition, God forbid! We want happy serfs, see! Quote
dre Posted April 20, 2014 Report Posted April 20, 2014 I gleaned the study - it makes reference to historical data but I didn't see it shown. Are things, indeed, different today ? That's my question. The richest man in America at the birth of the nation was.... George Washington. Why on earth would anyone even ask a question like that. You can simply look at the rise of big money in politics, and the rise of the corporate lobby over the last 30 years. And you can see the results.... A totally realignment of the way capital is allocated at the expense of labor, the government aided crushing of organized labor, massive concentration of wealth into the hands of aristocrats, the slashing of top backet tax rates and replacement of that revenue with borrowing in EVERYONES name. Really lazy question. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Michael Hardner Posted April 20, 2014 Report Posted April 20, 2014 Hmmm - why ? Maybe because I like to have evidence when I am presented with an argument . Lazy ? That's an odd way to describe 'thinking'? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
dre Posted April 21, 2014 Report Posted April 21, 2014 Hmmm - why ? Maybe because I like to have evidence when I am presented with an argument . Lazy ? That was my point. You could have easily looked at some evidence, its everywhere. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Michael Hardner Posted April 21, 2014 Report Posted April 21, 2014 That was my point. You could have easily looked at some evidence, its everywhere. As I said, the study should have addressed it. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
cybercoma Posted April 21, 2014 Author Report Posted April 21, 2014 As I said, the study should have addressed it. What "historical data" are you looking for? Quote
eyeball Posted April 21, 2014 Report Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Hmmm - why ? Maybe because I like to have evidence when I am presented with an argument . Lazy ? That's an odd way to describe 'thinking'? You're acting as if this is the very first time the topic of oligarchy or the influence the powerful and wealthy few enjoy over and above the vast majority of us has crossed your mind. It's a rather tiresome act to follow not to mention a little insulting because we know you're just not that dumb. There was nothing in your gleaning of this study that didn't resonate with arguments or evidence you've previously encountered? Surely you can understand why that's a little unbelievable to people who've been posting with you for years now. Who are you trying to kid? Edited April 21, 2014 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Michael Hardner Posted April 21, 2014 Report Posted April 21, 2014 What "historical data" are you looking for? The study concludes that the US is an "oligarchy". Since the US has existed for 238 years or so, why did it take so long to reach that conclusion or is this a new happenstance ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted April 21, 2014 Report Posted April 21, 2014 You're acting as if this is the very first time the topic of oligarchy or the influence the powerful and wealthy few enjoy over and above the vast majority of us has crossed your mind. No - it doesn't matter if I have seen these data with my own eyes or not or even whether I believe it. The study should be providing it. I would be ask to look at the data if the study said that wealth concentration is on the decline, so why shouldn't I in this case. In fact, the data shows that the oligarchy situation that exists today is not as bad as in the past, and the data shows that. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
eyeball Posted April 21, 2014 Report Posted April 21, 2014 In fact, the data shows that the oligarchy situation that exists today is not as bad as in the past, and the data shows that. And your data is...where? I can see how the effects of oligarchy are not as bad due to technology, human rights and having an easy planet for the taking but I would suggest this will be short lived given the pace at which we're drawing down the planet's natural capital. The more egregious effects of oligarchy will come back with a vengeance, as they appear to be doing in more denuded parts of the world. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
cybercoma Posted April 21, 2014 Author Report Posted April 21, 2014 The study concludes that the US is an "oligarchy". Since the US has existed for 238 years or so, why did it take so long to reach that conclusion or is this a new happenstance ? I'm still unclear on what historical data you're looking for. The study looked at whether there was a relationship between he political desires of certain groups and individuals, based on their social class, and the policies that the US government creates. I'm not sure that there's an argument in the paper that this has changed over time, just that the relationship exists given the data they used. Any argument about differences are not necessarily time-based, but based on cultural perceptions of the United States and popular sentiments about US democratic values. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted April 21, 2014 Report Posted April 21, 2014 And your data is...where? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States#History I can see how the effects of oligarchy are not as bad due to technology, Not sure where you get that from. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted April 21, 2014 Report Posted April 21, 2014 I'm not sure that there's an argument in the paper that this has changed over time, just that the relationship exists given the data they used. Well, isn't it relevant ? I would think that it just is. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
eyeball Posted April 21, 2014 Report Posted April 21, 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States#History Not sure where you get that from. Sure you don't.In the meantime your own link underscores the most obvious effect of oligarchy. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
cybercoma Posted April 21, 2014 Author Report Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Sure you don't. In the meantime your own link underscores the most obvious effect of oligarchy. You'll notice that MH's graph coincides almost perfectly with the adoption of Supply Side Economics too. Amazing how there's supposed to be a trickle-down effect, yet this chart shows precisely that there is no such trickle down. Edited April 21, 2014 by cybercoma Quote
cybercoma Posted April 21, 2014 Author Report Posted April 21, 2014 Well, isn't it relevant ? I would think that it just is. Why would it be relevant? The article is showing that there is no democracy and that the government creates legislation geared towards a small and wealthy portion of society. Time-series is not exactly relevant when they're looking at today's government and how it flies in the face of what is conceived as traditional American values. Quote
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