guyser Posted May 5, 2014 Report Posted May 5, 2014 Or somebody could ask an honest question, and be rewarded with sarcasm and brickbats.Naw, we already have those from the bosses.
Michael Hardner Posted May 5, 2014 Report Posted May 5, 2014 You dont need a rule to remove them. Yes, we do. We have people who come on here with one cause or another - and a pre-written screed of why it's important. It's been pointed out by Greg where the rule came from - I feel it's necessary but it doesn't really matter in the end. Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
betsy Posted May 5, 2014 Report Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) If you want to contribute to these forums, you will need to contribute original material; not something you've posted elsewhere. use the forum as a communication outlet, rather than as a place where thoughtful and original discussions take place. If today, I initially posted an original material on this site, will that also mean I cannot post the same thing tomorrow on another site that don't have any cross-posting rules? Edited May 5, 2014 by betsy
Charles Anthony Posted May 5, 2014 Report Posted May 5, 2014 If today, I initially posted an original material on this site, will that also mean I cannot post the same thing tomorrow on another site that don't have any cross-posting rules?Correct. You should not be doing that with your MLW threads. I realize this opens up an arbitrary wedge because next week, the question will be "Well, what if I post the same thing next month? or next year?" or "What if Sock Puppet posts my material? does that mean I am breaking the cross-posting rule?" and any other permutation. We had a member here who seemed to pop up sporadically to post the exact same thing over and over and over again. Most people thought he was a nut. Unfortunately, he was banned and the reason was because of repetition and cross-posting. The banning had nothing to do with the merit of the content he posted. Here is the key: Cross-posting is very rare here in the forum and when it occurs, most often it is borderline and vague enough that I let it slide. Whereas, what you describe runs counter to the forum rules and guidelines. Greg's explanation is it. PRACTICAL VERSION: If it becomes a habit, we will nix it. I can understand the desire to cast as wide a net as possible in your attempt to stir up discussion on a topic that you believe merits public scrutiny. I also understand that most members here put A LOT of work into their writing and their writing is unique. Very few members start new discussions but nearly all of you put a lot of creative effort with a clear intention of capturing a specific audience. MOD BIAS: Casting a wide net by copy-pasting stuff is disrespectful to most members of the forum, in my opinion. MORE BIAS: As a reader, it is painful when it pops up. I come here for original writing that transcends the pettiness of differences in political opinion. Cross-posted topics are like having to sit through a cover band in the middle of a festival line-up of original performers. Regardless of any unintended or perceived offense, the objective effects of the action are the same. Here is a hint: When you start a discussion, answer the following question: "Why should anybody HERE care?" I know that can sound like a harsh threshold to attain but please consider it a guide for how you create original content here in the forums. We do not have time for a meeting of the flat earth society. << Où sont mes amis ? Ils sont ici, ils sont ici... >>
WestCoastRunner Posted May 5, 2014 Report Posted May 5, 2014 MOD BIAS: Casting a wide net by copy-pasting stuff is disrespectful to most members of the forum, in my opinion. MORE BIAS: As a reader, it is painful when it pops up. I come here for original writing that transcends the pettiness of differences in political opinion. Cross-posted topics are like having to sit through a cover band in a middle of a festival line-up of original performers. I understand the rules for wanting original content, thoughts and ideas and I agree for the most part with them. However, I am now confused and wondering if I perhaps have broken the rules with regards to this. I have quoted people from articles I have found on the internet when trying to communicate my thoughts or when bringing a topic forward for discussion. If I am not responding or starting a thread properly, can you please advise. I am now second guessing my posts . I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
Charles Anthony Posted May 5, 2014 Report Posted May 5, 2014 If nobody ever told you anything about your posts, then I recommend that you stop second guessing your posts. Just keep doing what you have been doing until somebody (either from a moderator or from your fellow members) suggests otherwise. I am sorry a few members have led you to fear that you will be censored without warning. We do not have time for a meeting of the flat earth society. << Où sont mes amis ? Ils sont ici, ils sont ici... >>
WestCoastRunner Posted May 5, 2014 Report Posted May 5, 2014 If nobody ever told you anything about your posts, then I recommend that you stop second guessing your posts. Just keep doing what you have been doing until somebody (either from a moderator or from your fellow members) suggests otherwise. I am sorry a few members have led you to fear that you will be censored without warning. Thanks, and btw I'm not opening myself up to criticisms of my posts (from other members, unless it is sincerely helpful and not bickering) I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
jbg Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 ? You want to post personal stuff here ? Why ? In any case, you can always reword / restructure your posts so that they're different. I presume you would want your posts to your family to be at least slightly different than what you post here anyway, right ? Michael, this is the kind of thread (link) I think should be "cross-postable": I will admit it; I ran for my train out of Port Chester (not in New York City but about 40 Trudeau Units away), foot went out on an ankle on the ice, and I got a nice foot fracture. After limping to the office, from 42nd to 32nd Street, a billing coordinator directed me to a medical clinic. Within a few hours I was on the mend, with a heavy therapeutic boot on my foot. Each time since I have ridden the train, people have offered me the outside seat, offered to hold the door for me, and extended all manner of kindness. People have offered to come to my office to discuss matters rather than hailing me to their offices. The fact is that I am not in pain, so I almost always reject the kindnesses, with profuse thanks. New York has a reputation for being a cold, uncaring city. That could not be further from the truth. It's not "personal" in the sense that it would make people uncomfortable. I just see no reason to have to make revisions so that I don't get a warning or suspension if I want to post it on some other boards I choose to join. Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Michael Hardner Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 Michael, this is the kind of thread (link) I think should be "cross-postable": Perhaps Charles can clarify - I don't see anything on there that would raise a flag. As Charles said, don't second-guess your posts. The type of post that gets flag is nothing like that. Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
cybercoma Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 As Charles said, don't second-guess your posts.This is a bit of a mixed message. In one post Charles will say that we should know better when we get suspended, in the next he tells us not to second guess our posts. Argues and others, myself included, have had suspensions come as a surprise and the response has always been, "you should have known better." Now we're told not to second guess our posts. Hopefully you can appreciate why that comes off as a mixed message.
Michael Hardner Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 He said if you haven't been called out already. Like jbg wondering if some innocuous post would be called out... Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
jbg Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 Perhaps Charles can clarify - I don't see anything on there that would raise a flag. As Charles said, don't second-guess your posts. The type of post that gets flag is nothing like that. I actually did not cross-post it. I had too many run-ins before with posts of a similarly innocuous nature. Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Argus Posted May 6, 2014 Author Report Posted May 6, 2014 Charles has to spend a lot of time considering his actions, looking back at other threads - and messaging me, Greg and posters here. How much time would you volunteer to such work per day ? I'm sure I could find the time to moderate here. I don't think it would be an onerous responsibilty which would deprive me of all my free time. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 6, 2014 Author Report Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) He said if you haven't been called out already. Like jbg wondering if some innocuous post would be called out... Yeah, but when you get 'called out' it comes with a suspension. All my suspensions have been a surprise, for posts I considered, when I made them, to be fairly innocuous. All were my honest opinions. None drew any angry replies, nor even disagreement. In terms of the cross-posting, I can see the intent behind it, but like all broadly applied policy, its' good intent is often overriden by it's faulty application. The kind of 'cross posted' material it seems to be trying to block would be political material being posted by parties. That's a well-intentioned policy, but when it involves ordinary members who simply want to discuss an issue among different groups I believe it's misapplied. It's usually fairly easy to tell the difference, after all, between a political shill, almost invariably newly arrived, and 'ordinary' people. Rigid application of this rule would be, in my opinion, a mistake. Edited May 6, 2014 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 I don't think it would be an onerous responsibilty which would deprive me of all my free time. Do you thank strangers if they hold the door open for you ? Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Argus Posted May 6, 2014 Author Report Posted May 6, 2014 Do you thank strangers if they hold the door open for you ? Not if they let it go and it hits me in the face halfway through the doorway... "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Michael Hardner Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 1 ) Yeah, but when you get 'called out' it comes with a suspension. 2 ) when it involves ordinary members who simply want to discuss an issue among different groups I believe it's misapplied. It's usually fairly easy to tell the difference, after all, between a political shill, almost invariably newly arrived, and 'ordinary' people. Rigid application of this rule would be, in my opinion, a mistake. 1 ) Not for this type of infraction. 2 ) I can say in practice that it's not applied rigidly. Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 Not if they let it go and it hits me in the face halfway through the doorway... Ok. Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Charles Anthony Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 Michael, this is the kind of thread (link) I think should be "cross-postable":Perhaps Charles can clarify - I don't see anything on there that would raise a flag. As Charles said, don't second-guess your posts. The type of post that gets flag is nothing like that. It seems like you are conflating 2 issues. First, no. That post is not cross-postable. You should not be cross-posting with your MLW threads. Nothing is cross-postable here. Second, the personal or impersonal nature of the post is irrelevent to the issue of cross-posting. It's not "personal" in the sense that it would make people uncomfortable. I just see no reason to have to make revisions so that I don't get a warning or suspension if I want to post it on some other boards I choose to join.Then do not cross-post. Like I said before, if it happens once or twice, we will warn you and perhaps tell you to re-create an original thread. If those warnings are ignored and a pattern of trying to circumvent the rules develops, then we nix it. I actually did not cross-post it. I had too many run-ins before with posts of a similarly innocuous nature.Thank you for respecting the forum rules. If a long-time member posts something here and at another forum that interests them, I don't see how that's a problem.Me neither. I do not see it as a problem here because nobody does that! By consistently discouraging cross-posting, we do not get people cross-posting much at all here at MLW. People naturally come here to post their original thoughts. The people who cross-post are few and far between. That seems like a good thing! The people who cross-post are generally not interested in cordial debate. That is why this thread and the other were started isn't it, to re-evaluate how things are done and to make positive changes based on users' feedback?Indeed. So, here is my re-evaluting of the rules: Enforcing that rule worked! We do not have time for a meeting of the flat earth society. << Où sont mes amis ? Ils sont ici, ils sont ici... >>
Michael Hardner Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 As I said on the other thread, I'm going to avoid posting interpretations of the rules moving forward as I have been called out for it, understandably. My apologies to the members and to Charles, I was only trying to help... Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
cybercoma Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 It should probably tell you something if even the Forum Facilitator can't discuss the rules for fear of misunderstanding them. It's nothing against you MH, but that's something you guys should seriously reflect upon.
GostHacked Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 It should probably tell you something if even the Forum Facilitator can't discuss the rules for fear of misunderstanding them. It's nothing against you MH, but that's something you guys should seriously reflect upon. I would agree. MH seems to be pointing to some frustrations he has as an FF. And those frustrations are more likely tied into the inconsistent application of the rules by Greg and CA. It would be hard for our forum facilitator to actually facilitate debate properly with those inconsistencies. It's making this gig hard for MH as well as the rest of us.
guyser Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) Me neither. I do not see it as a problem here because nobody does that! MH admitted he does it. Nothing is original. Now what? Edited May 6, 2014 by Guyser2
Michael Hardner Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 I would agree. MH seems to be pointing to some frustrations he has as an FF. And those frustrations are more likely tied into the inconsistent application of the rules by Greg and CA. It would be hard for our forum facilitator to actually facilitate debate properly with those inconsistencies. It's making this gig hard for MH as well as the rest of us. No - I was called out by a poster because my explanation didn't gibe with something Charles had said, exactly. I don't want to contradict Charles' intentions here so I'll just opt out of explaining the rules, as long as I remember to stay away from that topic. Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
GostHacked Posted May 6, 2014 Report Posted May 6, 2014 No - I was called out by a poster because my explanation didn't gibe with something Charles had said, exactly. I don't want to contradict Charles' intentions here so I'll just opt out of explaining the rules, as long as I remember to stay away from that topic. That is the point MH. You may end up contradicting CA or Greg because you simply do not know how the rules get applied yourself. If they are not consistent, then there is no way for you to actually talk about anything while trying to represent the forum as a facilitator. It makes your position tough, as the line you walk is pretty thin between the two worlds.
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