Fair Election Act

[August1991]

I haven't read through this thread but I am vaguely aware of the issue from other sources.

I have one suggestion, a simple change, that may resolve this "vouching/identity" issue. When people vote in Canada, they should dip their finger in indelible, purple ink. Coupled with photo ID of citizenship, this would remove any Conservative fears that people are voting more than once. (People could lie about their residency and possibly shop around to vote in a close riding but they still would only have one vote.)

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IMV, the far more important aspect is that Canada would establish the rich-world status of a purple finger, raised in the air. Voters in Canada, like Afghanistan (or maybe some day, places like Zimbabwe) will show their membership in a civilized club.

Lastly, if the indelible ink lasts for a few days, then we'll all know who voted and who didn't. A bit of public shame is not a bad way to make people get involved.

[hitops]

You're going to have to help me out. Are you really this obtuse or are you just trolling? I've cited lots of real world examples and your responses are basically that they can get something to identify them in a week or so. Are you suggesting that they hold up the election until the ID comes in the mail?

Of course not. You just don't give a shit about those poor homeless people.

Just like your deal leader.

Not one of your real world examples is actually unable to vote however, as I've demonstrated. If they want to vote, the means are available. No, not necessarily instantaneously, with zero effort, 30 seconds before polls close. But with very little effort in a reasonable time. And guess what, that applies to everybody else as well. With the most basic of preparations, everyone can vote. Did you make any effort to confirm the list and think of how my explanations for those people would not work?

Of course not. It's just easier for you to attack and make assumptions about me than do your own homework.

A soup kitchen can attest to your residence. If you can't be bothered to go ask them, you probably don't really care about voting that much. The reality is that most homeless don't give a hoot about voting. But those that do, can easily do so.

Edited April 7, 2014 by hitops

[Big Guy]

Lastly, if the indelible ink lasts for a few days, then we'll all know who voted and who didn't. A bit of public shame is not a bad way to make people get involved.

Great idea! So if somebody asks you if you voted or not you could just "show them the finger"!

[hitops]

I have one suggestion, a simple change, that may resolve this "vouching/identity" issue. When people vote in Canada, they should dip their finger in indelible, purple ink.

This is a good suggestion. It takes no effort to scam a vote by vouching, and we have no way to identifying fraud if it's occurring. It would require a lot of effort to evade the purple mark though, too much to make it worth it.

[The_Squid]

Now the refrain from conservatives is "we can't tell if fraud is happening"?

That's laughable. You don't change the electoral system unilaterally there might be a problem. We don't know if there is... there's no evidence that there is... but Conservative MPs will blatantly lie about the fact that there is...

Just come up with some sort of evidence of a problem in the voting system. Then we can work on fixing it.

[guyser]

Now the refrain from conservatives is "we can't tell if fraud is happening"?

I installed an electrified fence around my house in Toronto to keep polar bears away.

Works great, never seen a bear try and touch it.

[cybercoma]

Both the party and the candidate's names are on the ballot. Different people cast their votes for different reasons.

If you think people don't vote for the party, YOU don't understand our electoral system. The number of seats for the party you want is the only thing that really matters. The names attached to most of those seats is almost irrelevant.

That's not how our electoral system works. Backbencher MPs are as much responsible for keeping the cabinet in check as the opposition.

Granted, it doesn't work that way because too many people think the way you do, but that's how it's supposed to work and how the system is designed.

[Bryan]

That's not how our electoral system works. Backbencher MPs are as much responsible for keeping the cabinet in check as the opposition.

Granted, it doesn't work that way because too many people think the way you do, but that's how it's supposed to work and how the system is designed.

People think it works that way, because that IS how it actually works in practice. How you wish it would work isn't relevant.

[Bryan]

Now the refrain from conservatives is "we can't tell if fraud is happening"?

Not "now", that's always been one of the biggest problems, and it's been mentioned several times in this thread. We have no mechanism in place to prevent or track fraud. That absolutely is a reason why we need to start.

[The_Squid]

Not "now", that's always been one of the biggest problems, and it's been mentioned several times in this thread. We have no mechanism in place to prevent or track fraud. That absolutely is a reason why we need to start.

No evidence whatsoever that there is any voter fraud. Evidence based decision making is not a bad thing. You don't make changes before gathering the evidence. Worse, you don't make up the evidence with lies.

Edited April 8, 2014 by The_Squid

[Bryan]

No evidence whatsoever that there is any voter fraud. Evidence based decision making is not a bad thing. You don't make changes before gathering the evidence.

That why we need these new regulations, so that we can START gathering the evidence. With rules in place to catch fraud, we'll finally know when people try to do it. The way it is now, we'll never know.

[Keepitsimple]

No evidence whatsoever that there is any voter fraud. Evidence based decision making is not a bad thing. You don't make changes before gathering the evidence. Worse, you don't make up the evidence with lies.

Hate to keep bringing it up but almost all European countries require a photo ID to vote - precisely because they feel it's important to protect the integrity of voting - they get it. We, not so much.....and you don't hear a bunch of whining coming from Europe about "dis-enfranchised" voters. Only in Canada could such a tempest be raised over something so logical as to prove who you are before voting.

[The_Squid]

That why we need these new regulations, so that we can START gathering the evidence. With rules in place to catch fraud, we'll finally know when people try to do it. The way it is now, we'll never know.

No. Another lame excuse for trying to disenfranchise voters. That isn't what this has been about at all. That's just a smoke screen.

[Bryan]

No. Another lame excuse for trying to disenfranchise voters. That isn't what this has been about at all. That's just a smoke screen.

The only thing that is lame is your goofy left-wing partisan spin. No one is being disenfranchised. Everyone has the right same rights to vote, and an incredibly generous 39 ways to show that they are eligible.

[The_Squid]

Hate to keep bringing it up but almost all European countries require a photo ID to vote - precisely because they feel it's important to protect the integrity of voting - they get it. We, not so much.....and you don't hear a bunch of whining coming from Europe about "dis-enfranchised" voters. Only in Canada could such a tempest be raised over something so logical as to prove who you are before voting.

show the evidence of the fraud and why the elections act needed to be changed.

I'm not even sure you know what you're talking about when it comes to Europe. Europe is big. Where are you talking about? I know it isn't the UK. They don't need photo ID to vote.

Denmark has no photo ID rules.

Ireland sends a card to each registered voter that can be used. No other ID required.

Germans can use their registration card.

Europe is a big place... Be specific. Where are you talking about? What countries are you suggesting Canada should emulate?

Also, New Zealand and Australia don't need that sort of ID.

[Bryan]

There's only one reason anyone would be opposed to ID requirements: they INTEND to commit fraud and are concerned they might not get away with it.

[The_Squid]

There's only one reason anyone would be opposed to ID requirements: they INTEND to commit fraud and are concerned they might not get away with it.

Lol Silly hyperbole.

There are already ID requirements and always have been.

[On Guard for Thee]

Really. I wonder where all these hordes of vote fraudsters are going to come from since the cons can't seem to find a one of them so far.

[cybercoma]

There's only one reason anyone would be opposed to ID requirements: they INTEND to commit fraud and are concerned they might not get away with it.

If you're not for government spying, you're with the pedophiles too, right? Stop drinking the CPC Kool-aid.

[Keepitsimple]

show the evidence of the fraud and why the elections act needed to be changed.

I'm not even sure you know what you're talking about when it comes to Europe. Europe is big. Where are you talking about? I know it isn't the UK. They don't need photo ID to vote.

Denmark has no photo ID rules.

Ireland sends a card to each registered voter that can be used. No other ID required.

Germans can use their registration card.

Europe is a big place... Be specific. Where are you talking about? What countries are you suggesting Canada should emulate?

Also, New Zealand and Australia don't need that sort of ID.

You're right - but you're wrong. The issue is not really Photo ID - it's the steps you have to go through to prove who you are. Denmark has a national registration system and everyone has an ID number. In Germany, you need a voter ID Card to vote. There is no "vouching". The main argument made against removing vouching is that up to 500,000 people have no ID. These "dis-enfranchised" people would not be allowed to vote in either of these countries. Canada's approach is far more lenient compared to almost all countries who take democracy seriously. Even the Election Commissioner in the UK is advocating for Photo ID at polling stations.

Link to European Voter ID: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_Registration#Australia

Voters should be required to show photo ID at polling stations in Great Britain to lessen the risk of fraud, the Electoral Commission has said.

The elections watchdog said it planned to introduce the change in time for the 2019 local government and European Parliament elections.

Although it has yet to confirm full details of the plan, it said it would be based on the Northern Ireland model, where voters already need photo ID.

Link: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-25641801

Edited April 8, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[Topaz]

Again, there ARE Canadians that don't have a drivers' license OR A health card with a picture, so which ID can they use that has an ID with a picture, that most Canadians have. There are Tory MP's that don't think this ACT is right, probably because they know they may lose their seats in the next election and I hope that Pierre is one of them. Since it seems that the government is taking away its citizens democracy..... will the rest of the world put sanctions against the Harper government???

[Keepitsimple]

Again, there ARE Canadians that don't have a drivers' license OR A health card with a picture, so which ID can they use that has an ID with a picture, that most Canadians have. There are Tory MP's that don't think this ACT is right, probably because they know they may lose their seats in the next election and I hope that Pierre is one of them. Since it seems that the government is taking away its citizens democracy..... will the rest of the world put sanctions against the Harper government???

So.....you think the ACT says you can't vote without Photo ID? Let me clear that up - you don't need ID with a photo. Does that mean you're OK with it now?

Edited April 8, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[On Guard for Thee]

If you're not for government spying, you're with the pedophiles too, right? Stop drinking the CPC Kool-aid.

But hey, making those kind of silly accusations can get you appointed to the Court of Queens bench in Manitoba. Drinking that CPC Kool Aid has it's benefits it seems.

[Topaz]

So.....you think the ACT says you can't vote without Photo ID? Let me clear that up - you don't need ID with a photo. Does that mean you're OK with it now?

After checking you're right BUT a driver's license is the easiest way, you only need it. That's not the the biggest problem with this ACT. After listening to the political talk shows, a Tory spoke man said that the Tories were going after the head of EC for revenge for the way EC went after them, then he tried to take it back. Also, in this bill, it would stop further investigation into the robo calls, which point to the Tories and in the future he any party did anything wrong with election, WE, the taxpayers would never know, again secrecy! This party needs to go.

[Keepitsimple]

After checking you're right BUT a driver's license is the easiest way, you only need it. That's not the the biggest problem with this ACT. After listening to the political talk shows, a Tory spoke man said that the Tories were going after the head of EC for revenge for the way EC went after them, then he tried to take it back. Also, in this bill, it would stop further investigation into the robo calls, which point to the Tories and in the future he any party did anything wrong with election, WE, the taxpayers would never know, again secrecy! This party needs to go.

Now that we've got Photo ID out of the way, you're on to Robocalls. In fact there are some measures in the Act that target the companies that do the robocalling.....but I think its important to let the courts establish exactly what and how the Guelph robo "scandal" was perpetrated. The case comes up in June. Hopefully, we'll have some answers and perhaps afterwards, we'll be in a position to prevent something similar from happening again. Regardless though, it appears that nothing will appease you - you simply want the Conservatives gone. As a voter, that is your right - but at this point in history more than others - I would caution you to "be careful what you wish for".