Tories changing Election Canada

[eyeball]

Of course there are also hard working people who are well informed but refuse to dignify or engage with a dysfunctionally corrupt democratic process. How much of the increase in voter disengagement that is coming from this direction is anyone's guess but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a significant amount.

Edited March 6, 2014 by eyeball

[Bryan]

Apparently you think the people who don't live on your street are stupid. I will let the next sentence in this communication write itself.

I never said anything of the kind.

[Michael Hardner]

Are they worse? I'm not disputing...it's an honest question.

We know that serious issues are discussed less often, and at a shallower level than in the past. But we don't pay attention to quality of publics dialogue.

[Michael Hardner]

Of course there are also hard working people who are well informed but refuse to dignify or engage with a dysfunctionally corrupt democratic process.

Chicken and egg situation there, clearly.

[Keepitsimple]

Agreed. But shouldn't "we" care about the quality of public dialogue, and information ? My sense is that these things are worse, but indeed "we" don't pay attention so how can we know ?

Yes - but let's deal with one problem at a time. Step one is to get them engaged enough that they will at least take the time to go to the polls and cast a vote.......so I go back to the school system to build a civic "foundation" that at least allows youth to relate in some manner to voting/politics. Of course, it's not for everyone and its only one tool - albeit a large one - but in trying to move the voting participation meter, I think you have to try and develop a framework for youth so they can get engaged later on.

[On Guard for Thee]

I watched Power and Politics this aft and Evan Solomon had Poilliever squirming like I've never seen him squirm. The major wiggle was when it was revealed that the claims of so called "irregularities" with the vouching could not in any way be substantiated. I suspect they have done their homework and found out that the people who might require vouching are not people who will vote conservative and so this is clearly, to use a Stepehen Harper word, a way to supress that vote. If the "unfair elections act" is required then take it on the road and let the people it will affect have a say. Seems CLEAR to me.

[Bryan]

Anyone who has scrutineered has seen shady vouching, and crazy irregularities at the polls. The EC volunteers are practically voting for the people at the seniors blocks, and people walk in with only a hydro bill as their only ID, then use that to vouch for 5 or more of their "friends". I've seen plenty of it, every election.

Is there an official record of this? Of course not, and that's the point. Elections Canada won't report it nor will they log a third party report because as far as they are concerned that activity is fine. That's why we need more defined and strict guidelines, so that such behaviours DO get reported.

[On Guard for Thee]

Anyone who has scrutineered has seen shady vouching, and crazy irregularities at the polls. The EC volunteers are practically voting for the people at the seniors blocks, and people walk in with only a hydro bill as their only ID, then use that to vouch for 5 or more of their "friends". I've seen plenty of it, every election.

Is there an official record of this? Of course not, and that's the point. Elections Canada won't report it nor will they log a third party report because as far as they are concerned that activity is fine. That's why we need more defined and strict guidelines, so that such behaviours DO get reported.

Why then is the Harper government so afraid of taking his unfair elections act on the road so the people who it will affect can have a say?

[On Guard for Thee]

The Brad Butt issue is gonna come back to smack 'em in the unfair elections act process.

[Bryan]

Why then is the Harper government so afraid of taking his unfair elections act on the road so the people who it will affect can have a say?

No one is afraid of anything, other than spending a lot of money and wasting a lot of time on something that is long overdue for an overhaul. The usual suspects will just drag everything out with wild accusations and no solutions, so why bother? Better to just fix it and be done with it.

The funny thing is the people claiming that stopping voter fraud is targeting left-leaning voters. It's as if they don't even realize what they are admitting when they say it.

[On Guard for Thee]

No one is afraid of anything, other than spending a lot of money and wasting a lot of time on something that is long overdue for an overhaul. The usual suspects will just drag everything out with wild accusations and no solutions, so why bother? Better to just fix it and be done with it.

The funny thing is the people claiming that stopping voter fraud is targeting left-leaning voters. It's as if they don't even realize what they are admitting when they say it.

So far there is no evidence of voter fraud, so why are the cons in such a hurry to ram this act through if it's not just anothr slant on robocalls that worked so well last time.

[Bryan]

I already told you, anyone who has spent time at the polls has seen it. The fact that the incidents are NOT recorded is the problem. Elections Canada is not taking democracy seriously, so they are going to be forced to.

[Michael Hardner]

I go back to the school system to build a civic "foundation" that at least allows youth to relate in some manner to voting/politics. Of course, it's not for everyone and its only one tool - albeit a large one - but in trying to move the voting participation meter, I think you have to try and develop a framework for youth so they can get engaged later on.

Ok, but I'm not sure how much the youth will be excited by anything they pick up in school.

I would put it on government to set up modes of engagement that make sense for projects and operations areas - as each initiative would develop a public of its own.

[waldo]

I already told you, anyone who has spent time at the polls has seen it. The fact that the incidents are NOT recorded is the problem. Elections Canada is not taking democracy seriously, so they are going to be forced to.

unreported/recorded voter fraud??? Is this like when Harper Conservatives spoke/speak of all that unreported crime? Like that?

[Keepitsimple]

Ok, but I'm not sure how much the youth will be excited by anything they pick up in school.

I would put it on government to set up modes of engagement that make sense for projects and operations areas - as each initiative would develop a public of its own.

I'm not against anything that would advance the engagement capability of voters - although "modes of engagement", projects and operations are already making my eyes glaze over. Do you have a concrete example that interested posters can start to think about? Who knows - maybe somebody who can actually DO something will eavesdrop on us. Back to school for a second....maybe I see things through rose-coloured glasses but kids should learn to respect democracy, if not love it - and its importance and the value of a vote. There are so many examples using other countries of what can go wrong without democracy - so many examples of how different governments have their place and time - how policies have their place and time. History can be taught through a democratic lens, etc. We have to make it interesting for kids - or at least a good majoreity of them. Some dufuses just will never "get it".

[On Guard for Thee]

I listened to the commitee deliberations today. seemed to me like each issue the cons brought up fell flat on it's face. The biggest "irregularity" they could seem to come up with was in the case of a nursing home where an employee vouched for more than one of the residents. Oh hell, there goes democracy!

[Topaz]

There's this part that $20.00 donations don't have to be included as expenses, so any party can go and get as many 20.00 as they want and not have to claim them or something like that, I know I don't have it 100% correct but the opposition parties don't like that idea. The Tories must to out of their minds with worry of losing the next election because Harper hasn't gotten the pipeline he wants yet and hasn't dealt with health care.

[Topaz]

Here's a thought, instead of spending all those millions of $$ on advertising, why not spend it on a "Voter's Card"? It has your name, address and a picture of the voters. The provinces and territories can be partnered with the feds and the card can be used for voting ID in ALL elections in Canada. That way ALL citizens who have the right to vote can and that does away with many items the Tories are talking about.

[On Guard for Thee]

unreported/recorded voter fraud??? Is this like when Harper Conservatives spoke/speak of all that unreported crime? Like that?

Well now wait a minute, we have had two eyewitness accounts of voter fraud from the cons. OK a couple of days later it was revealed the accounts were lies but hey sometimes it's hard to get through the day without some sort of "juicy rationalization". I suppose one could do some naval gazing to try and determine if lying about lying is actually lying.

[PIK]

Mulcair who has been screaming about the vouching, makes me wonder when he showed up to vote in the quebec elections and if he forgot his ID he would not be able to vote. No vouching in QUE or ONT.

[PIK]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/04/30/elections-canada-paid-500hour-for-former-supreme-court-justice-to-investigate-robocalls-investigation/

Nothing wrong at election canada.

Edited May 13, 2014 by PIK