Justin Trudeau kicks all "Liberal" Senators out of Caucus.

[cybercoma]

Which is why most people want the Senate reformed or abolished. What JT did is meaningless because, I'd hope, the Supreme Court would rule on what can be done about the Senate before the 2015 election.

Most people? Most people don't understand that we're a federated state. They don't understand what a constitutional monarchy is. They also don't understand how our system of government works. That's the opinion of most people, so forgive me if I'm not leaping to change our entire political system based on the opinions of most people.

[Topaz]

Is it possible to have a senate and have them as independents and NO party connection? By doing so, then no PMO could do what they did in the senate scandal.

[Boges]

Is it possible to have a senate and have them as independents and NO party connection? By doing so, then no PMO could do what they did in the senate scandal.

If you want to get rid of party politics in the Senate, fine. . . I guess. But how are they appointed?

Does anyone here believe for a nano-second that if JT becomes PM he'd appoint a Senator that openly disagrees with his agenda?

[Topaz]

The senate is suppose to be the "second thought" for Bills sent to the senate, so wouldn't the senate do a better job if there was no connection to the House and the PMO. As far as electing, I understand they would be accountable to the taxpayer but elected or appointed, there's corruption in all walks of people. I do not agree of abolishing because that give way too much power to the PMO. The MP's should ask their constituents for ideas of how election should be held and who can run but then again, we'll only have the people with money running.

[WWWTT]

Here's Justin voting against senate reform.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ_wLRr58BA

Oh wait, now he's all for it?

WWWTT

[Remiel]

Innoculation my butt. There is no way anyone could be so dense as to think that kicking out the Senators is going to make anyone forget that they were Liberals when they played loose with the expenses, if that is indeed what happened.

[WWWTT]

Check out the big Freudian slip JT makes in this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHTyctmaPTA&feature=youtu.be

WWWTT

[Guest Derek L]

Innoculation my butt. There is no way anyone could be so dense as to think that kicking out the Senators is going to make anyone forget that they were Liberals when they played loose with the expenses, if that is indeed what happened.

I will speculate, for Trudeau to make such a “bold” move without even consulting the Liberal Senators beforehand (and some are now openly resenting), that something truly stinky is about to be released in the findings of the Auditor General’s report…….So much so, Trudeau’s inner circle is attempting to get out in front of the final report, as such, this is merely the Liberals blowing (reefer) smoke…..

I’ll also go so far as to say that both PM Harper and Tom Mulcair will retain their current jobs in 2015.

So let it be written, so let it be done.

[Guest Derek L]

Check out the big Freudian slip JT makes in this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHTyctmaPTA&feature=youtu.be

WWWTT

And what slip was that?

[Guest Derek L]

Former Vancouver Mayor and now former Liberal Senator (wink-wink) makes several good points:

"I think it's a brave move on the part of Justin. I don't know that it's a smart move," the former Vancouver mayor told The Vancouver Sun.

Campbell, who didn't attend a meeting Trudeau held with senators Wednesday morning, said Trudeau should have shown the courtesy of consulting with senators first.

He also questioned how the Senate will function in terms of its role in scrutinizing government legislation. He asked, for instance, who will sit on committees and who will be named critics for which bills.

"If someone comes up and asks me to be a critic on a bill I'm going to say, 'forget it.' Campbell, who said he's confident Ferguson's audit of his expenses won't show any discrepancies, acknowledged that Trudeau's decision to distance himself from the Senate may be a smart political move. And he said the Senate could become more effective and legitimate if the 105-seat chamber gradually became more independent.

"It could be a smart political move from the point of view of Liberals distancing themselves from the Senate, and from the point of view of maybe moving forward on Senate reform. "

Though I hardly agreed with the former Mayor, he had no problem letting people know what he felt.

[GostHacked]

Yeah but the PM spent all that money to go to Israel so they're square. LOL!

Harper was representing Canada on a government trip to talk to leaders of another nation. JT went to a paid speaking convention. Not the same really. Even if you disagree with Harper spending the money for the trip one is considered official government business, the other was not.

[na85]

I actually think this is a pretty good step in the right direction, but I don't feel that it goes far enough.

I think electing Senators is a big mistake; as soon as you require Senators to run for office you make them infinitely more susceptible to lobbyists and Special Interests. Irrespective of this, though, I applaud Trudeau's move even though I recognize it as mostly a PR stunt. It'll hopefully generate some meaningful discussion around the issue.

To me, the selection process is far outweighed by the calibre of individuals being selected. There needs to be a law preventing partisan appointments.

[Boges]

Harper was representing Canada on a government trip to talk to leaders of another nation. JT went to a paid speaking convention. Not the same really. Even if you disagree with Harper spending the money for the trip one is considered official government business, the other was not.

I apologise for not conveying the intended sarcasm and derision in my initial post.

Of course I don't feel that way. The Israel trip was fine.

[WWWTT]

And what slip was that?

He still called the liberal senators liberal senators. But immediately changed to "former".

I suspect he really doesn't believe what he is pushing or he has a poor memory, take your pick.

WWWTT

[Boges]

Some of these Senators were appointed by his father. He's really spitting in the face of the party's heritage.

[PIK]

No longer liberal senators but senators from the liberal party.

[Topaz]

The Tories say that JT did this because he must have info. into the AG report, which hasn't been proven as yet, anyway. The idea of such would think maybe the Tories should have been the ones to send their senate members bagging because there's been more of them caught than Libs, I still think that the MP's elected should have their own listed of future senators, have their backgrounds checked and divide the list up as equal as possible and set as Independents, no party ties and that way they are indirectly elected by elected MPs, cuts the red tape and the cost of them would stay the same. Thoughts?

[Boges]

The Tories say that JT did this because he must have info. into the AG report, which hasn't been proven as yet, anyway. The idea of such would think maybe the Tories should have been the ones to send their senate members bagging because there's been more of them caught than Libs, I still think that the MP's elected should have their own listed of future senators, have their backgrounds checked and divide the list up as equal as possible and set as Independents, no party ties and that way they are indirectly elected by elected MPs, cuts the red tape and the cost of them would stay the same. Thoughts?

And you don't think a Party Whip would dictate who those "Future Senators" are?

[WWWTT]

Some of these Senators were appointed by his father. He's really spitting in the face of the party's heritage.

Wouldn't go that far.

Women at one time were not allowed to vote in Canada either. But we evolved.

Same can be said for the senate.

At the very least, I'm convinced now more than ever that in ten years, the senate, if it's still around will be very different.

Winds of change are blowing!

WWWTT

[cybercoma]

The Tories say that JT did this because he must have info. into the AG report, which hasn't been proven as yet, anyway. The idea of such would think maybe the Tories should have been the ones to send their senate members bagging because there's been more of them caught than Libs, I still think that the MP's elected should have their own listed of future senators, have their backgrounds checked and divide the list up as equal as possible and set as Independents, no party ties and that way they are indirectly elected by elected MPs, cuts the red tape and the cost of them would stay the same. Thoughts?

The Conservatives don't take any accountability for their actions anyway. They're of the mindset that they can do whatever the hell they want as long as they apologize afterwards. The most recent example being Fantino metaphorically spitting in the face of veterans.

[WWWTT]

The Tories say that JT did this because he must have info. into the AG report, which hasn't been proven as yet, anyway. The idea of such would think maybe the Tories should have been the ones to send their senate members bagging because there's been more of them caught than Libs, I still think that the MP's elected should have their own listed of future senators, have their backgrounds checked and divide the list up as equal as possible and set as Independents, no party ties and that way they are indirectly elected by elected MPs, cuts the red tape and the cost of them would stay the same. Thoughts?

Why elected?

As far as I'm concerned the senate should be treated the same way as jury duty! But with better pay and benefits!

Everyone eligible for jury duty, is eligible for senate duty! That simple!

The exact same restrictions.

Section 2(d) of the charter clearly states freedom of association so party affiliation can not be used to filter out candidates.

WWWTT

[cybercoma]

At first glance, the jury duty thing sounds absurd, but that's actually a good way to view the Senate. It should be a body of citizens that review legislation, equally representing the components of the federation, to ensure that legislation is fair and balanced as well as in the interests of each part of our federation.

[waldo]

No longer liberal senators but senators from the liberal party.

being 'punted' from the caucus was the most significant hold that any party leader held over his/her caucus members... don't behave, don't "toe the line", don't vote the party line... and you're out of the caucus. Those newly dubbed Independent Senators are now free to vote their conscience... without the threat of being removed from caucus holding weight/presence. And the action didn't require any form of constitutional upheaval... didn't involve the provinces... didn't involve the federal government to rule.

[Boges]

Also removes accountability to anyone. They have no mandate of any kind to be there.

[Keepitsimple]

The fact that Trudeau did this with Liberal Senators does nothing - they were such a minority that they had little or no influence.....but lets take it to the next step - and Harper "frees" his Senators to do the same thing. The we'd have 105 unelected members accountable to no one. These are the same people who have all been painted as crooks, who the NDP would do away with completely, who the public is at the very least clamoring for reform. The thought of unelected members running off half-cocked - without the guidance the the House of Commons - the house that reflects the will of the people - is insane. Harper was correct in asking the Supreme court for guidance on what we can do, and what we can't do - according to the Constitution - and then try to forge some common ground in Parliament to begin to address the problems.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Keepitsimple