ASIP Posted June 1, 2014 Report Posted June 1, 2014 If the military on either side is not wearing a uniform then, that goes against some Geneva conventions (like they really f'n matter in war) and they would be called 'enemy combatants'. All forces fighting for Ukrainian government wear uniforms. Most of pro-Russian wear military-like fatigues. Russians in general or just greedy big shots and government officials? Surely most like us, are just regular folks trying to survive in a world run by power greedy big shots and inveterate politicians. You cannot imagine intensity of brainwashing Russian people are subjected to 24/7. It is a well documented phenomenon now: approx 3/4 of Russian population are not like us in regard to critical thinking. And to lie in everyday life is normal for Russian mentality. This is another drastic difference from, say, Canadian people. Quote
Big Guy Posted June 1, 2014 Report Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) All forces fighting for Ukrainian government wear uniforms. Maybe all the regulars but there seem to be other units. http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/civilian-donbas-battalion-forming-national-guard-unit-350068.html Who controls them, what they do and what they wear? As to "And to lie in everyday life is normal for Russian mentality. This is another drastic difference from, say, Canadian people." To state that 150 million people lie is a normal everyday process because of their ethnicity is ludicrous. You have just lost all credibility with me. Seems to me that you have an agenda that is affecting your objectivity. Edited June 1, 2014 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
jbg Posted June 2, 2014 Report Posted June 2, 2014 And to lie in everyday life is normal for Russian mentality. This is another drastic difference from, say, Canadian people. I guess you haven't listened to Brian Mulroney or Jean Chretien then. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
ASIP Posted June 2, 2014 Report Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) Maybe all the regulars but there seem to be other units. http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/civilian-donbas-battalion-forming-national-guard-unit-350068.html Who controls them, what they do and what they wear? 1. Officially government do not control them. The name of their commander is known. It seems they are going to join the government controlled National Guard. 2. They wear that black uniform. This is a strict rule. There is no any other irregular unit. Thus your first sentence is senseless. As to "And to lie in everyday life is normal for Russian mentality. This is another drastic difference from, say, Canadian people." To state that 150 million people lie is a normal everyday process because of their ethnicity is ludicrous. You have just lost all credibility with me. Seems to me that you have an agenda that is affecting your objectivity. Oh, please, don't be pathetic. First of all, I didn't mention all 150 mln people. I was talking about Russian national mentality. Consider that as a part of the national culture. Would you refuse to accept that such a thing as a national culture exists? I guess you haven't listened to Brian Mulroney or Jean Chretien then. They are politicians, it's their business. They are not typical Canadians. Edited June 2, 2014 by ASIP Quote
GostHacked Posted June 2, 2014 Author Report Posted June 2, 2014 All forces fighting for Ukrainian government wear uniforms. Most of pro-Russian wear military-like fatigues. Some of those pics have military type people, but nothing on the uniforms that show who they are. This was something reported early on. http://www.theguardian.com/news/defence-and-security-blog/2014/mar/06/ukraine-gross-violation-russian-troops The deployment of Russian soldiers in the Crimea without any identifying markings raises questions about whether this is a breach of international law on warfare. Jonathan Eyal, international director at the London-based Royal United Services Institute, is adamant that it is. "It is a gross violation. It is highly illegal. It is something that violates all conventions of warfare going back hundreds of years," said Eyal. He expressed surprise that the International Committee of the Red Cross, which is closely linked with the Geneva conventions on warfare, had not commented on this. You cannot imagine intensity of brainwashing Russian people are subjected to 24/7. It is a well documented phenomenon now: approx 3/4 of Russian population are not like us in regard to critical thinking. And yet, you do not think that we are subjected to brainwashing and propaganda here in Canada or any 'westernized' country. All the rhetoric towards Iraq was just that, pure propaganda. There were no WMDs. It was NOT for humanitarian reasons. It was NOT to combat terrorism. It was about oil and the control of the flow and currency it is traded in. And to lie in everyday life is normal for Russian mentality. This is another drastic difference from, say, Canadian people. Our government lies to us daily as well. Look at the propaganda that the government spits out regarding the bills that tried to get through as of late. The one Toews did, and the other one related to cyberbulling. You know there is something up when Todd's mother comes out against the cyber bullying bill. Question everything. Quote
GostHacked Posted June 2, 2014 Author Report Posted June 2, 2014 They are politicians, it's their business. They are not typical Canadians. Politicians represent Canada and do Canada's business with the global economy. Why do you accept liars as leaders? Why would you give them a pass? Quote
Big Guy Posted June 2, 2014 Report Posted June 2, 2014 Oh, please, don't be pathetic. First of all, I didn't mention all 150 mln people. I was talking about Russian national mentality. Consider that as a part of the national culture. Would you refuse to accept that such a thing as a national culture exists? ... To imply that lying is a "national culture" of any nation is ludicrous. I cannot accept that kind of blatant blanket bigotry. I respect your right to an opinion but I now question your motives and truthfulness. I will be seeking impartiality on this topic elsewhere. Thank you for your response. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
eyeball Posted June 2, 2014 Report Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) You cannot imagine intensity of brainwashing Russian people are subjected to 24/7. It is a well documented phenomenon now: approx 3/4 of Russian population are not like us in regard to critical thinking. Sure I can, in fact Russians sound every bit as human as anyone on the planet, heck I even bet they love their children too. Look, the extent of deluded uncritical thinking abounds in humans everywhere, we're no different and neither are our politicians and oligarchs - they're as dressed up just nakedly as the one's you're stuck with. And to lie in everyday life is normal for Russian mentality. This is another drastic difference from, say, Canadian people. It's completely normal for us to lie and be lied to as well. The only real difference I've noted and I heard it mentioned here in this forum, was that Russians don't link corruption in their system of governance with the taxes they pay the way westerners do. We apparently take corruption more personally because we automatically think about the taxes we pay and feel ripped -off or in some cases we link corruption with the dispossession of an opportunity for the sake of some influential wealthy individual or corporation or group thereof. That said, I think westerners are just as meek perhaps even more so when it comes to being deferential to authority. In either case I think both our societies are saturated with a thick miasma of sycophancy but I bet when push comes to shove we'll prove to be more submissive than people in Russia are. Edited June 2, 2014 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
cybercoma Posted June 2, 2014 Report Posted June 2, 2014 Have we seen any pro Russia contributors around who only post in this thread and nowhere else? http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-how-russias-troll-army-hit-america Quote
ASIP Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) Our government lies to us daily as well. Look at the propaganda that the government spits out regarding the bills that tried to get through as of late. The one Toews did, and the other one related to cyberbulling. You know there is something up when Todd's mother comes out against the cyber bullying bill. You don't know how lucky you are, boy, back in Canada. Edited June 3, 2014 by ASIP Quote
ASIP Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) To imply that lying is a "national culture" of any nation is ludicrous. I cannot accept that kind of blatant blanket bigotry. I respect your right to an opinion but I now question your motives and truthfulness. I will be seeking impartiality on this topic elsewhere. Thank you for your response. Please don't be a demagogue. I've just pointed out that within every nation you will find a wide variation of attitudes to any particular issue. You, it seems, see everything national as uniform. Difference between us is that you has never lived Russian people life. I did that for 40 years. I call things how they are. You speak your dreams. I do not insist on my point of view. However without fluent speaking (even not reading) and preferably Ukrainian you won't be able to find " impartiality on this topic." So, if you have any question, I would be glad to give you an answer. I see sincere interest to the topic in your posts. Now there is relative stability in the situation in Ukraine. More things are clear today. Edited June 3, 2014 by ASIP Quote
Merkuri Posted June 3, 2014 Report Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) The Ukrainian Su-25 ground-attack aircraft shoots 8 unguided missiles at Lugansk city centre.http://cs619819.vk.me/v619819255/8794/nR2M_rHP7-8.jpgMultiple explosions on the ground:http://puu.sh/9bPYK/71e0ae4ece.gifThere were no anti-nazi separatist fighters in the area.However, the Ukrainian pilot succeeded in killing 7 civilians.https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpKTM2zIUAElz9k.jpg Edited June 3, 2014 by Merkuri Quote
ASIP Posted June 4, 2014 Report Posted June 4, 2014 The Ukrainian Su-25 ground-attack aircraft shoots 8 unguided missiles at Lugansk city centre. http://cs619819.vk.me/v619819255/8794/nR2M_rHP7-8.jpg Multiple explosions on the ground: http://puu.sh/9bPYK/71e0ae4ece.gif There were no anti-nazi separatist fighters in the area. However, the Ukrainian pilot succeeded in killing 7 civilians. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpKTM2zIUAElz9k.jpg This is a lie. There is no any direct evidence a Ukrainian plane shot at the city center. The explosions obviously cannot be caused even by 50-mm rockets (UkrAF use 82-mm ones). It is obviously a gun fire. Not a single piece of the rockets was found. A separatist AA gun (23-mm) was recently installed exactly within the sector of the fire. Most of the civilians were killed by falling debris from the explosion on the building wall that is not located on the axis of fire. Conclusion: Theoretically, the series of explosions can be from an aircraft gun, but there is no evidence. The explosion on the building - highly unlikely has something to do with Ukrainian aircraft. It is absolutely possible that both explosions in the park and the explosion in the building are actions of separatists. There were a lot of separatists in the area, it's their headquarter. One of the killed "civilian" was a minister in the self appointed government of the separatists. The main reason the separatists are still not subdued there is that they use civil population of the cities as a human shield. There are plenty of evidence that they install firing positions in densely populated areas. Quote
monty16 Posted June 4, 2014 Report Posted June 4, 2014 No American should ever criticize Russians as being brainwashed. Americans are most likely the most brainwashed people of the entire world. My proof for saying this is that the US waged war with Iraq on false pretences and murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people. Americans still to this day deny their government's guilt in crimes that equal Nazi atrocities in sheer scale of egregious crimes against humanity. Yet Americans are incapable of seeing that reality because they see themselves as the good guys. Clearly, they are not! Quote
Big Guy Posted June 5, 2014 Report Posted June 5, 2014 The conflict seems to be escalating. There have been at least 60 Ukrainian soldiers killed and lots on the other side. Ukraine forces are made up, of 40% conscripts and 60% contract soldiers. I wonder how many of these conscripts are from the East and South. I also wonder if they can be trusted to fight on the Kiev side. Looks like there will eventually be a semi-independent buffer area between Kiev and the current Russian border. I cannot see Crimea leaving the Russian sphere. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
monty16 Posted June 5, 2014 Report Posted June 5, 2014 The conflict seems to be escalating. There have been at least 60 Ukrainian soldiers killed and lots on the other side. Ukraine forces are made up, of 40% conscripts and 60% contract soldiers. I wonder how many of these conscripts are from the East and South. I also wonder if they can be trusted to fight on the Kiev side. Looks like there will eventually be a semi-independent buffer area between Kiev and the current Russian border. I cannot see Crimea leaving the Russian sphere. I can't see the US/Nato ever being content to let the people of the Crimea choose their own destiny. I would expect that the Ukraine government has intentions of taking back the Crimea because it's so essential to their original mission to cause a problem that Russia just couldn't ignore. We must not forget, the whole problem has been caused by the US/Nato and it's plans to encroach further on Russia. The Russia bashing before the Olympics, during the Olympics, and even closely following the Olympics, due to it being a huge success, should have told us early on that the US/Nato had plans to start the cold war again. Russia's opposition to more US wars in the ME is completely out of the question for the US control over the ME. If the US doesn't accomplish it's goals now then it's more and more unlikely that it will be able to in the future. The window of opportunity is closing. And so what will be the pretence for the Ukraine, with US backing, to move on taking back the Crimea? Will it be charges of ethnic cleansing of the sort that was fabricated in Kosovo? Can the world be fooled again now, as the US track record of causing justification for wars is so easily recognizable? As the US/Nato pushes, will Russia push back again? Will the missiles finally get to Cuba? Nothing's off the table if this proceeds the way I can imagine it doing. Quote
Argus Posted June 6, 2014 Report Posted June 6, 2014 No American should ever criticize Russians as being brainwashed. Americans are most likely the most brainwashed people of the entire world. Brainless, mindless, ignorant, rabid nonsensical drivel. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
monty16 Posted June 6, 2014 Report Posted June 6, 2014 Brainless, mindless, ignorant, rabid nonsensical drivel. How many US military persons refuse to go to Iraq and fight in that war? Were they all morally corrupt individuals who didn't care that they were doing the devil's work in killing innocent people? Or was it a case of them feeling morally on the side of right because they were told they were fighting for their country? Can you think of any other instance of a war where the aggressor side was so positively on the side of wrong? This US action in Iraq was precedence setting and even Nazi Germany's war, for one example, can be justified in the minds of some. What justification can you give for the US? And in fairness to some Americans, how many of them refused to join the military because they saw the truth. A truth that most Canadians saw and expressed to our government in large enough numbers to prevent us from taking part. Quote
GostHacked Posted June 7, 2014 Author Report Posted June 7, 2014 You don't know how lucky you are, boy, back in Canada. A lie is a lie no matter where you are in the world. And our leaders lie as much as all the other leaders on the planet. You could argue about the amount of lies and severity of them. But in the end a lie is a lie. Quote
-TSS- Posted June 7, 2014 Report Posted June 7, 2014 The current guys in power in Kiev are clearly SOB's but from the view of the EU and the USA they are our SOB's. Quote
monty16 Posted June 7, 2014 Report Posted June 7, 2014 The long and the short of it is that the US/Nato's plans for expansion went awry. No wonder they hate Putin so much, he's tough and smarter than any leader the Russians ever had or will have. Billions most likely wasted in an effort to install a US/Nato friendly government while overthrowing Yanukovich's duly elected government. And then they whine about the people of the Crimea choosing Russia! Quote
ASIP Posted June 8, 2014 Report Posted June 8, 2014 The current guys in power in Kiev are clearly SOB's but from the view of the EU and the USA they are our SOB's. What facts give you a reason to call him a SOB? What wrong things did he do? Quote
ASIP Posted June 8, 2014 Report Posted June 8, 2014 ... while overthrowing Yanukovich's duly elected government. Nonsense. Quote
monty16 Posted June 8, 2014 Report Posted June 8, 2014 The US/Nato getting the desired results. http://rt.com/news/164564-slavyansk-shelling-water-hospitals/ But wasn't their big outcry that a few died in the streets due to Yanukovich's stronghanded methods? And where have we heard that before? In Iraq where the US went to save the people from Saddam? Quote
Big Guy Posted June 17, 2014 Report Posted June 17, 2014 The Russians are upping the ante. They say that they are owed about $3 billion for gas from Ukraine and have turned off the taps. They demand at least $1 billion payment before they open those taps again. Are they entitled to this demand" Do they have the right to turn off those taps? How is this going to end? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
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