The Truth About Obamacare

[bush_cheney2004]

Sometimes we may have to wait a bit, but we don't lose our house and kids paying for it if we do get sick or hurt.

That's why Americans buy insurance.....just like you, except you pay the government. IMHO, Canadians are obsessed with "free health care", when it is anything but "free".

"Access to a waiting list is not access to health care" - Chief Justice Beverly McLachlin

Edited October 19, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

You I suspect are an American of some means, and as I quoted one of your compatriots, don't give a rats ass about anyone else, especially if they are of less financial stature than yourself. And once again, I'm happy about that border.

If this is directed at me, I will ignore your personal attacks, and also give thanks for that border. Please stay on your side....and out of Seattle for cheaper air fare !

[On Guard for Thee]

That's why Americans buy insurance.....just like you, except you pay the government. IMHO, Canadians are obsessed with "free health care", when it is anything but "free".

"Access to a waiting list is not access to health care" - Chief Justice Beverly McLachlin

Noone said it's free. No Canadian has ever said that. It's called "socialized health care". It works great but that word "social" seems to scare the hell out of you boys. It's not communism, it just means we take care of each other, on this side of the border.

[bush_cheney2004]

Noone said it's free. No Canadian has ever said that. It's called "socialized health care". It works great but that word "social" seems to scare the hell out of you boys. It's not communism, it just means we take care of each other, on this side of the border.

The Americans have single payer ("social") health insurance programs that dwarf anything in Canada, and the excess system capacity to serve Canadians tired of waiting to be "taken care of" back home.

[On Guard for Thee]

The Americans have a system that allows people who don't happen to be sucking at the trough to go bankrupt when they get sick. And you can't bullshit me. I used to flyedevac helicopter down there.

[On Guard for Thee]

Believe me, you have nothing in terms of healthcare that will ever come close to "dwarfing" Canada's system. We take care of each other up here.

[Guest American Woman]

The Americans have a system that allows people who don't happen to be sucking at the trough to go bankrupt when they get sick.

People go bankrupt in Canada when they get sick, too. It's one of the top three reasons Canadians file for bankruptcy.

[Wilber]

People go bankrupt in Canada when they get sick, too. It's one of the top three reasons Canadians file for bankruptcy.

It's true that our system does't cover all health related expenses and many people carry some suplementary insurance but most of those bankruptcies would be a result of loss of income, not the cost of healthcare.

[Guest American Woman]

It's true that our system does't cover all health related expenses and many people carry some suplementary insurance but most of those bankruptcies would be a result of loss of income, not the cost of healthcare.

The point is, providing health care doesn't prevent bankruptcies when illness strikes. People go bankrupt from being sick in Canada, too.

[Wilber]

The point is, providing health care doesn't prevent bankruptcies when illness strikes. People go bankrupt from being sick in Canada, too.

People go bankrupt for all kids of reasons. In Canada, paying for healthcare isn't one of them.

[Argus]

That's why Americans buy insurance.....just like you, except you pay the government. IMHO, Canadians are obsessed with "free health care", when it is anything but "free".

No, we're obsessed with efficiency. You pay almost double what we pay for our health care. Government is famous for too much red tape and inefficiency but the US private health care sector has far more of both than government systems in the US or elsewhere.

[Argus]

People go bankrupt in Canada when they get sick, too. It's one of the top three reasons Canadians file for bankruptcy.

As others have said, not because they can't pay their doctor. Nor do Canadians have to sit and fester with bad teeth and bad eyesight and undiganosed illnesses because they can't afford a doctor. I saw a show a while back about one of those 'doctors without borders' organizations flying in to a third world place where the locals gathered for days in desperate hopes of having their teeth or eyes looked at, maybe getting an X-ray to find out what that awful pain their belly was. The locals were crying, they were so happy to finally get their bad teeth fixed or get a cheap pair of glasses.

I think it was called Tennessee...

Edited October 19, 2013 by Argus

[Guest American Woman]

People go bankrupt for all kids of reasons. In Canada, paying for healthcare isn't one of them.

People most definitely do go bankrupt for all kinds of reasons, but illness is a major reason in Canada as well as the U.S.

While Canadians may not go bankrupt paying for healthcare (and I would wager that's not always the case), they do go bankrupt because they become ill. Same as in the U.S. Do you think Americans are immune to the financial stress of loss of income et al during an illness? Do you think that isn't a factor as to why Americans who become ill file for bankruptcy? Do you think no Americans who filed for bankruptcy had medical insurance? Do you think Canadians suffer a greater loss of income due to illness than Americans do? - perhaps because they are out of work longer while waiting for healthcare?

The fact is, having one's healthcare paid for doesn't prevent bankruptcy due to illness. Just as I said. Illness is a major reason for bankruptcy In Canada.

[Guest American Woman]

As others have said, not because they can't pay their doctor. Nor do Canadians have to sit and fester with bad teeth and bad eyesight and undiganosed illnesses because they can't afford a doctor. I saw a show a while back about one of those 'doctors without borders' organizations flying in to a third world place where the locals gathered for days in desperate hopes of having their teeth or eyes looked at, maybe getting an X-ray to find out what that awful pain their belly was. The locals were crying, they were so happy to finally get their bad teeth fixed or get a cheap pair of glasses.

I think it was called Tennessee...

And I think you're full of [fill in the blank].

[waldo]

And I think you're full of [fill in the blank].

no - I guess you're not aware of "Remote Area Medical". Perhaps you should offer an [fill in the blank] to MLW member Argus.

[bush_cheney2004]

Believe me, you have nothing in terms of healthcare that will ever come close to "dwarfing" Canada's system. We take care of each other up here.

No, I choose not to believe you, as the "social" dollars spent and people served in the U.S. for health care do "dwarf" anything in Canada. The health care horror stories are easy to find in Canada, just like in the U.S. This topic has been debated to death many times here, and you bring nothing new to the discuussion. See you in Seattle....which is across that border you love so much.

[bush_cheney2004]

No, we're obsessed with efficiency. You pay almost double what we pay for our health care. Government is famous for too much red tape and inefficiency but the US private health care sector has far more of both than government systems in the US or elsewhere.

Americans pay more and spend more...because they get more...lots more...and a lot faster. Most Americans would not tolerate the way health care is rationed in Canada, leading to legendary wait times for even the most routine procedures.

[bush_cheney2004]

People most definitely do go bankrupt for all kinds of reasons, but illness is a major reason in Canada as well as the U.S. ...

The fact is, having one's healthcare paid for doesn't prevent bankruptcy due to illness. Just as I said. Illness is a major reason for bankruptcy In Canada.

Agreed....Canadians pay corporate, personal, sales, and other taxes to finance "free" health care, contributing directly and indirectly to such bankruptcies.

[bush_cheney2004]

I think it was called Tennessee...

I know it was called Manitoba..or Saskatchewan...or (pick a province or territory):

Canadian children need better access to dental care regardless of where they live or their family's income, say pediatricians concerned about tooth decay.

Children with rotting baby teeth or "early childhood caries" can suffer poor growth, behavioural problems, poor learning, and sleep loss, the Canadian Pediatric Society said in a report Friday.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/dental-care-access-too-unequal-say-pediatricians-1.1358144

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/severe-tooth-decay-top-reason-for-preschoolers-day-surgery-1.2101517

[Guest American Woman]

That's why Americans buy insurance.....just like you, except you pay the government. IMHO, Canadians are obsessed with "free health care", when it is anything but "free".

Noone said it's free. No Canadian has ever said that. [..]

These Canadians did.

At sporting matches, it is customary for fans of the home team to chant unflattering jabs at their opponents, and the Sunday night soccer “friendly” game between Canada and the U.S., played at Toronto’s BMO Field, was no exception.

What was unusual though was one of the taunts chosen by the Canadian faithful: “Free health care, free health care.”

Actually, Canada, health care isn’t ‘free’: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/actually-canada-health-care-isnt-free/article4230286/

[Wilber]

People most definitely do go bankrupt for all kinds of reasons, but illness is a major reason in Canada as well as the U.S.

While Canadians may not go bankrupt paying for healthcare (and I would wager that's not always the case), they do go bankrupt because they become ill. Same as in the U.S. Do you think Americans are immune to the financial stress of loss of income et al during an illness? Do you think that isn't a factor as to why Americans who become ill file for bankruptcy? Do you think no Americans who filed for bankruptcy had medical insurance? Do you think Canadians suffer a greater loss of income due to illness than Americans do? - perhaps because they are out of work longer while waiting for healthcare?

The fact is, having one's healthcare paid for doesn't prevent bankruptcy due to illness. Just as I said. Illness is a major reason for bankruptcy In Canada.

If a people can't support themselves because they are ill, there is a good chance many of them will go bankrupt whether they are receiving health care or not. There is much less chance a Canadian who can support themself will go bankrupt due to health care costs or go without medical care than an American. That said, no public system can hope to pay for everything and I would be the last person to claim our system couldn't use some improvement. We are dogged by the same kind of ideological resistance to change as you are, just a different ideology.

[bush_cheney2004]

These Canadians did.

"Free health care" is part of the Canadian identity, even when it really isn't free at all. Americans...not so much, as they know better.

[cybercoma]

It's completely dishonest to even suggest that going bankrupt because you're incapable of working due to health reasons is the same thing as going bankrupt because you had to sell all of you belongings to pay for treatment. The fact is that the latter scenario still includes the former on top of that expense.

[waldo]

And I think you're full of [fill in the blank].

no - I guess you're not aware of "Remote Area Medical". Perhaps you should offer an [fill in the blank] to MLW member Argus.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckPSrcJNLjg

very illuminating stats! Inglewood California... 1 week, $1 million in free healthcare provided to 8000 patients - the largest free healthcare event in the U.S. --- just 1 of over 550+ like events put on by Remote Area Medical across the United States.

.

[Guest American Woman]

It's completely dishonest to even suggest that going bankrupt because you're incapable of working due to health reasons is the same thing as going bankrupt because you had to sell all of you belongings to pay for treatment. The fact is that the latter scenario still includes the former on top of that expense.

Fact is, illness is a major reason for bankruptcy in Canada, too; and as I pointed out, the same underlying causes that you refer to are factors in the U.S., too. It's completely dishonest to misrepresent it only as an inability to pay medical bills. It's also dishonest to say that medical bills are never a factor in Canadians declaring bankruptcy due to an illness. All medical costs aren't covered by healthcare.