Keystone XL pipeline

[eyeball]

Yep, like the fish I catch, they're your's up until the moment I land them, then I own them. We just need to get more for our oil before we allow it to come out of the ground...and I was referring to China so the US would be characterized as another trucker and trader thereof.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yep, like the fish I catch, they're your's up until the moment I land them, then I own them. We just need to get more for our oil before we allow it to come out of the ground...and I was referring to China so the US would be characterized as another trucker and trader thereof.

If you want to get more...then spend more. Stop relying on so much foreign capital to get the job done.

[eyeball]

Am I ever with you on that one.

[overthere]

Nothing prevents any Canadian from buying shares in pipeline or oil companies.

Oh, you want the govt to do something.

Right.

[eyeball]

Not the government per se, I want Canada to do what Norway did with it's heritage.

I'd like to see Ottawa treat Alberta's oil the way it treats BC's fish.

[Smallc]

That's because you don't understand the way the Constitution was written.

[overthere]

Not the government per se, I want Canada to do what Norway did with it's heritage.

I'd like to see Ottawa treat Alberta's oil the way it treats BC's fish.

Do you mean you want Ottawa to redistribute the oil wealth of Alberta for the benefit of all Canadian citizens?

They do that now.

Perhaps you've heard of the equalization program? About $10 billion net wealth leaves Alberta taxpayers every year, and flows to the benefit of all Canadians for social programs like health care and education. And which sector of the Alberta economy generates those high wages that generate those high taxes that flow back to Ottawa with such volume and regularity?

Maybe you've heard of income taxes that oil companies and thousands of support companies pay, and of course that money goes to Ottawa to be redistributed to....you get it.

And lets not forget the federal royalties paid on oil production which flows back to Ottawa to be redistributed to.... and so on.

Would you like to change that?

Be careful what you wish for.

Edited November 27, 2014 by overthere

[Smallc]

And lets not forget the federal royalties paid on oil production

I was with you until that. I'm not sure why Ottawa would be getting any.

[eyeball]

That's because you don't understand the way the Constitution was written.

Really? You seem to think it's like a periodic table, written in the very fires of creation and as immutable as the passage of time.

[eyeball]

Do you mean you want Ottawa to redistribute the oil wealth of Alberta for the benefit of all Canadian citizens?

They do that now.

Perhaps you've heard of the equalization program? About $10 billion net wealth leaves Alberta taxpayers every year, and flows to the benefit of all Canadians for social programs like health care and education. And which sector of the Alberta economy generates those high wages that generate those high taxes that flow back to Ottawa with such volume and regularity?

Maybe you've heard of income taxes that oil companies and thousands of support companies pay, and of course that money goes to Ottawa to be redistributed to....you get it.

And lets not forget the federal royalties paid on oil production which flows back to Ottawa to be redistributed to.... and so on.

Would you like to change that?

Be careful what you wish for.

We should have contracted out our governance to Norway. They have no debt, half a trillion bucks in the bank and they're over here profiting from Ottawa's distribution of our heritage.

[overthere]

You could always send back your share of the wealth if you're really bothered.

[guyser]

Hmm....I wonder how far retroactive we could go.

[eyeball]

You could always send back your share of the wealth if you're really bothered.

Which would be peanuts once my share of the debt was accounted for.

[overthere]

Which would be peanuts once my share of the debt was accounted for.

Don't let that stop you. The government will cash that cheque.

Come The Revolution, you will be hailed as a Hero of The People.

[jbg]

I'm confused. So do you left wing types no longer like China even though they are communist? Are left wingers now a protectionist group?

Not long it was the exact opposite. I may have missed something.

They'll take any position as long as it's damaging to the West. Doesn't have to be consistent or intelligent. Just as long as it feels good by means of self-abnegating their country. Except Gore et. al. live it up pretty well.

[dre]

They'll take any position as long as it's damaging to the West.

[bush_cheney2004]

President Obama yucks it up with Colbert over the Keystone XL pipeline:

In the Monday night episode of The Colbert Report, the joke was on Canada's oil industry.

That's because the featured guest appeared to take a dig at the industry's long-awaited, long-delayed Keystone XL pipeline project.

Unfortunately for project proponents, it just so happened that this skeptical guest was the man who controls its fate: U.S. President Barack Obama.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/obama-on-colbert-report-appears-dismissive-of-keystone-xl-pipeline-1.2865459

[On Guard for Thee]

President Obama yucks it up with Colbert over the Keystone XL pipeline:

In the Monday night episode of The Colbert Report, the joke was on Canada's oil industry.

That's because the featured guest appeared to take a dig at the industry's long-awaited, long-delayed Keystone XL pipeline project.

Unfortunately for project proponents, it just so happened that this skeptical guest was the man who controls its fate: U.S. President Barack Obama.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/obama-on-colbert-report-appears-dismissive-of-keystone-xl-pipeline-1.2865459

I'd say the joke's on you, as usual.

[bush_cheney2004]

Nebraska's supreme court has vacated a lower court ruling concerning the constitutionality of legislated Keystone XL pipeline corridor. The court did not have the required super-majority of votes to sustain the lower court ruling.

So this removes one more obstacle and excuse to barring KXL pipeline approval by President Obama, yet he remains opposed for political and environmental reasons.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/keystone-xl-landowner-lawsuit-tossed-in-nebraska-s-top-court-1.2895178

[overthere]

The situation in the Nebraska court has nothing at all to do with a federal approval or rejection of Keystone.

The processes are independent, except of course when you are a President intent on not publicly committing for as long as possible.

He used the Nebraska courts as a foil for a while, but has since made it clear he will not approve Keystone XL.

Oh well, it will have to wait for the next guy in the Oval Office, in two years. The pipeline itself takes about 2 years to build, for a total of four years before the bitumen flows.

But wait, why not prebuild the whole thing, except for the single section of pipe that actually crosses the US Border? Why not build the entire thing right now on both sides of the border? There is no State Dept or Obama approval required for a domestic line, and much of the routing and engineering groundwork is already done on both sides of the border. Just cut the final piece, set it aside right on the 49th parallel, and install it in the afternoon after the inauguration ceremony in January 2017.

In the meantime, the US should prepare itself for a tsunami of rail cars full of nasty oil rolling through many towns and cities.

I

[bush_cheney2004]

...Why not build the entire thing right now on both sides of the border? There is no State Dept or Obama approval required for a domestic line, and much of the routing and engineering groundwork is already done on both sides of the border...

Frankly, I don't know why Canada hasn't constructed more east-west pipeline and refining capacity regardless of what the Americans decide or when they decide it. All this does is kick the can down the road for development of more domestic infrastructure, continued ownership by foreign corporations, and low royalties instead of higher profits for finished distillates.

[overthere]

Frankly, I don't know why Canada hasn't constructed more east-west pipeline and refining capacity regardless of what the Americans decide or when they decide it. All this does is kick the can down the road for development of more domestic infrastructure, continued ownership by foreign corporations, and low royalties instead of higher profits for finished distillates.

Agreed on the need for building infrastructure , but not so much for the reasons you mention. There is no purpose to adding more refining capacity, the feed from Equalization East pipeline for example will help use excess capacity in NB. What would be required and I would support is upgraders to turn bitumeninto synthetic crude, and increase value. Like the US, multinational corporations in Canada are owned by anybody who wants to buy them. Would you like to see Canada nationalize US oil interests here?

Royalties are not particualrly low, not when the multiple layers of tax are included. And oil is almost always refined much closer to where they are consumed. Refineries don't produce the same products at all of them, they are tailored both to what product is input, and what is needed locally as output.

[bush_cheney2004]

Would you like to see Canada nationalize US oil interests here?

Sure...as long as compensation is forthcoming. PET already impressed the world with his NEP.

It just seems that many NIMBY Canadians want it both ways....higher revenues without more capital investment and risk.

If Texans suck, why are they running the show ?

[overthere]

Sure...as long as compensation is forthcoming. PET already impressed the world with his NEP.

It just seems that many NIMBY Canadians want it both ways....higher revenues without more capital investment and risk.

If Texans suck, why are they running the show ?

Are those the same Canadians who really want to invest plenty and risk much in Keystone XL, but seem to be running into crazy NIMBYism in Johnny Foreigner?

[bush_cheney2004]

Are those the same Canadians who really want to invest plenty and risk much in Keystone XL, but seem to be running into crazy NIMBYism in Johnny Foreigner?

I don't think so, but the outcome seems to rest in the hands of foreigners at many levels. It's Alberta's resource....take control of how it gets to market and who profits the most.