What to do with Canada Post?

[Wilber]

Let me know when you can send a letter anywhere in Canada for 85 cents by FedEx or UPS.

[Shady]

Let me know when you can send a letter anywhere in Canada for 85 cents by FedEx or UPS.

Why? Canada Post doesn't do that.

[Wilber]

Why? Canada Post doesn't do that.

Yes they do.

[Shady]

Yes they do.

Right, if you ignore the massive amount of money they lose, than yes. That's like me selling cars at much lower than cost, but asking somebody else to make up for the shortfall, but yep, I could technically claim that I have the lowest prices!

[Wilber]

Right, if you ignore the massive amount of money they lose, than yes. That's like me selling cars at much lower than cost, but asking somebody else to make up for the shortfall, but yep, I could technically claim that I have the lowest prices!

Fedex and UPS provide a good service but it is a premium service at a premium price. Excellent for people in metropolitan areas, less so in rural areas and non existant in many parts of the country.

[ReeferMadness]

No thanks. We need not follow the France economic model of shorter work weeks and longer holidays, etc. Because what comes after that is bankrupcty.

The system is already morally and ethically bankrupt - has been for years. With the growing gap between rich and poor, financial bankruptcy could soon follow. The rich are increasingly unwilling to pay for government and the poor can't.

[Boges]

Let me know when you can send a letter anywhere in Canada for 85 cents by FedEx or UPS.

Perhaps it should be far more than that, as most forms of communication and financial transactions can be achieved without sending physical paper.

[cybercoma]

You're not making any sense. Conservatives don't decide what somebody gets paid. It's supply and demand. If there are only a handful of people that are qualiftied to do a job, than the salary demands for said job will be high. If there are many people that are qualifed, than the salary demands will be lower. It's basic economics, which apparently some people cannot seem to grasp. As for most public sector jobs, depending on the job, the salary will be different. Many public sector jobs aren't high skilled jobs, and the supply of qualifed people to do them is significantly higher than say a CEO of a world wide company. Use common sense.

keep studying, Shady. When you get to third and fourth year economics, perhaps you'll understand that things are not as simplistic as you need them to be to understand them.

[Bonam]

Let me know when you can send a letter anywhere in Canada for 85 cents by FedEx or UPS.

Those kinds of prices are unrealistic today. It is trivially easy and close to free to send information through electronic means. Sending physical items, however, is a premium service. There's no reason it should be offered essentially for free to the few people who still use such services, while the taxpayer subsidizes it.

[bush_cheney2004]

Those kinds of prices are unrealistic today. It is trivially easy and close to free to send information through electronic means. Sending physical items, however, is a premium service. There's no reason it should be offered essentially for free to the few people who still use such services, while the taxpayer subsidizes it.

Yep....this is the crux of the problem...old school thinking about old school services. I would like milk, cheese, and eggs delivered to my doorstep, but it stopped making economic sense decades ago.

[Bonam]

Yep....this is the crux of the problem...old school thinking about old school services. I would like milk, cheese, and eggs delivered to my doorstep, but it stopped making economic sense decades ago.

I only heard about the idea of a "milk man" who delivers milk to your door a few months ago for the first time. Boggled the mind. What the heck would that be for, I wondered. That being said, for those who desire such services today, and are willing to pay fair market rates for them, they are available: i.e. Amazon Fresh.

[bush_cheney2004]

I only heard about the idea of a "milk man" who delivers milk to your door a few months ago for the first time. Boggled the mind. What the heck would that be for, I wondered. That being said, for those who desire such services today, and are willing to pay fair market rates for them, they are available: i.e. Amazon Fresh.

No...it's true. There use to be a guy in a truck who would deliver bottled milk, eggs, and sometimes cheese or other dairy items to the customer's doorstep, usually putting them in a designated insulated chest. He would pick up the empty bottles for refilling. That's why there are jokes about children being fathered by such delivery men. There was also a "bread man" and "beer man"...all the essentials !!

Edited December 15, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[Argus]

You're not making any sense. Conservatives don't decide what somebody gets paid. It's supply and demand. If there are only a handful of people that are qualiftied to do a job, than the salary demands for said job will be high.

There's absolutely no shortage of people who can be CEOs. They're everywhere, in part because they're constantly being fired for poor performance. Look through the history of almost any company and you find multimillionaire CEO after multimillionaire CEO doing nothing much for the company and being released with a huge payoff.

You really think you couldn't get a top notch, capable person to run a big company for half a million a year instead of ten or twenty or thirty million?

[Argus]

No, they could just contract the mail service out to Fedex or UPS that can deliver more efficiently with less cost, which can save money to stay in the taxpayers pocket.

Yeah? It costs twenty bucks for a courier company to get a letter across the city. You think they're going to be able to get a letter from asswipe Mannitoba to Dildo Nfld for a buck?

[Bonam]

Yeah? It costs twenty bucks for a courier company to get a letter across the city. You think they're going to be able to get a letter from asswipe Mannitoba to Dildo Nfld for a buck?

No, they couldn't. Nor should they. That's not how much the service costs. Why subsidize it?

[Topaz]

There is still a guy that delivers milk in Quebec, he was on the news. In Ontario, we had a bread man, milkman, ice-cream man, besides the mail lady, all delivered to one's home. Many businesses used to do this but gas prices probably changed that.

[Boges]

You can still get anything delivered to your doorstep. You just should have to pay a premium for it.

My fear with a "super box" is it'll be like my Hotmail inbox. I doubt I'll remember to check it frequently enough to clean out all the Spam, I mean direct marketing.

[cybercoma]

No, they couldn't. Nor should they. That's not how much the service costs. Why subsidize it?

Well then, let's just disband the confederation.

[Bonam]

Well then, let's just disband the confederation.

No longer offering an outdated service at an unrealistic price is the same as "disbanding confederation"?

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes...who knew that all of Canada would fall because of the...post office.

[hitops]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize what an economic genius I was talking to. Could you please cite me the bankruptcy proceedings where the government of Canada was declared insolvent? I must have missed that.

Oh, and by the way, that has NOTHING to do with economics. You're talking about laws. You might want to remember that next time you start making weary pronouncements on other people's ignorance.

I think this is your problem, you actually don't think economics matter at all. Just pour the money in! It lasts forever!

The difference between CPost and the others, which may take you a long time to think about in order to grasp, is that those other companies make money. They have an actual incentive to adapt to the times and be as relevant as possible. Canada Post does not, and this is exactly why they hemorrhage money. You have no solution to this problem, you promote the cause of the problem.

Also, I don't backstop Fedex and Purolator as the taxpayer. That's a healthy business. The role of Canada Post is to provide a service, not provide employment to others at my expense. The sooner people like you realize that some people do not deserve better at the expense of others simply because they work for gov, the better for all of us.

Don't miss this....providing salaries and nice pensions to post workers is not just being nice from a magical money pot in the sky. It is doing so at the EXPENSE of everyone else. It's not ethically justifiable.

Edited December 15, 2013 by hitops

[hitops]

You could have said the same about Rome at one point. That doesn't mean anyone wants to live like that now.

The US model for society is one ALL other western nations have moved away from as backward, crude, cruel and enriching the few at the expense of the many.

The opposite is true. The US has moved more people from poverty into the middle class than any other nation on earth. The other western nations you are talking about, are generally running unemployment rates of 10 - 30%. Yay! I'm going to take a wild guess and assume you're one of those people who believes countries like France do it properly. France is currently running a 25% unemployment rate......for new university graduates. Go team workers rights! Crushing your country one year at a time.

Groups? Yes, like uhm, ordinary people. Government provides services to ordinary people. That's basically it. It provides pensions and policing, medical care, border protection, public transportation, including highways, bridges, airports and ports, the military, fire and ambulances, etc. etc. etc. All of that is done by government, which is, after all, just the organization created by the people. And yes, the part you hate (because FOX told you to) it helps keep old people from freezing to death in the dark of the homes they can't afford to heat, feeds poor children in the mornings, provides public welfare for the destitute, services for the disabled, unemployment benefits, etc. etc.

And yet all those things happened 50 years ago, when the government was barely a shell of the behemoth it is today. But of course, it has to endlessly get BIGGER, BIGGER! After all, I don't know how I dressed myself or wiped my own bum before government was here to do it for me.

Edited December 15, 2013 by hitops

[hitops]

There's absolutely no shortage of people who can be CEOs. They're everywhere, in part because they're constantly being fired for poor performance. Look through the history of almost any company and you find multimillionaire CEO after multimillionaire CEO doing nothing much for the company and being released with a huge payoff.

You really think you couldn't get a top notch, capable person to run a big company for half a million a year instead of ten or twenty or thirty million?

lol Man you really have no clue how this works do you? If you could so easily get someone for a half million, EVERY company would do this. But you actually can't. If you could, boards would not hire CEO's, they would just do the job thmeselves and keep the money. They don't do this....for a reason. You need to start looking at the actions people take in real life, and ask your rational questions about why they do those things. When Steve Jobs re-joined Apple, they massively improved their business. But hey just dumb luck right? Anyone can do it! Get a clue.

But there's a very simply test to prove your theory. If it's so simply, than everyone bitching about CEO's making major bucks should just go start their own business. If it's so easy....just go do it! Hurray.....oh wait you don't want to? Then shut up. Do you know how many businesses fail every year? It's far more than succeed. It's not easy at all.

Edited December 15, 2013 by hitops

[Argus]

I think this is your problem, you actually don't think economics matter at all. Just pour the money in! It lasts forever!

Hardly. And your reading comprehension skills are lacking (again) for you won't find anywhere in this topic where I said the move by Canada Post should be halted. I have simply addressed the continuing screed coming from the brainless right which holds that any time there is an economic problem or issue it's the fault of workers demanding to be fed. Damn them! Oh if only it wasn't for those greedy scum it would be such a wonderland for, well, corporations.

The problems of Canada Post are not due to workers or to their salaries or benefits. They're due to changing times and incompetent management. Comparing them to Fedex and the like is fatuous nonsense since couriers charge far, far far more and only really operate within major metropolitan areas.

The difference between CPost and the others, which may take you a long time to think about in order to grasp, is that those other companies make money.

And Canada Post does too, or did until 2011. That was the first year in which it lost money. Surprised? It made money again in 2012 but will lose money in 2013. The culprit is not pensions (filthy union scum!!) but rapidly declining mail volume and a requirement laid upon them by the government to get mail from any point in the country to any other point in the country quickly and far and away cheaper than any private sector company could ever do.

So maybe you should find another topic to rant on against those evil unions destroying the harmony of innocent, sainted corporate Canada.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Argus

[Argus]

lol Man you really have no clue how this works do you? If you could so easily get someone for a half million, EVERY company would do this.

No, they wouldn't, because they hire their friends and colleagues, and there's a lot of back patting going on, and little told them to any kind of responsible enumeration. Besides, it's become a point of pride for these guys that they're such a great company their CEO deserves to be paid tens of millions to run the place.

In the 1980s corporate CEOs were paid 42 times the average worker salaries. Now it's 343 times the average worker salary.

Are you dumb enough to think the CEOs of today are almost ten times smarter and better than they were in the 1980s?

And again, in comparison, if you look at the deputy ministers in Canada, they have much more responsibility than private sector CEOs, have many more employees and larger budgets. Look at the one of the Commissioner of CRA I posted earlier. You think he couldn't run most any private sector corporation in Canada as well as those who do so now?