Guest Derek L Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 What protocol calls for deadly force followed by a tazer? What protocol calls for a cop to knowingly put himself in danger by coming into range of a person holding a knife? How do we know protocol was not followed? The fact we are discussing this is enough proof in my view. The intent of Deadly Force is to stop a threat.....once the threat is stopped, so is it`s use..........The use of the taser, as can be heard & seen in the video, was in part because the young man still had the knife as officers approached, indicating that he was still alive.......Would it have been better to put two more in his dome as opposed to approaching to render First Aid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 as officers approached, indicating that he was still alive.......Would it have been better to put two more in his dome as opposed to approaching to render First Aid? Your habit of either or is silly. There are other options available. They are all armed with expanding sticks for one. What did our cops do before tasers...the horror ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 The intent of Deadly Force is to stop a threat.....once the threat is stopped, so is it`s use..........The use of the taser, as can be heard & seen in the video, was in part because the young man still had the knife as officers approached, indicating that he was still alive.......Would it have been better to put two more in his dome as opposed to approaching to render First Aid? You still haven't made any comment or tried to explain how, after the guy is down, the cop shifts position, waits five seconds, then puts six more bullets into him. Care to try to justify that based on threats to the cops standing outside the streetcar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted August 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Launching Tear Gas into that streetcar would have been infinitely better than shooting him 9 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Your habit of either or is silly. There are other options available. They are all armed with expanding sticks for one. What did our cops do before tasers...the horror ! Like what? Beating the wounded guy with an ASP would have been better than Tasering him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Launching Tear Gas into that streetcar would have been infinitely better than shooting him 9 times. And after launching tear gas, what would the young man do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 You still haven't made any comment or tried to explain how, after the guy is down, the cop shifts position, waits five seconds, then puts six more bullets into him. Care to try to justify that based on threats to the cops standing outside the streetcar? How many of the first volley of shots hit him? And where did the shots hit him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted August 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 And after launching tear gas, what would the young man do? Dunno, drop the knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 And of course: http://www.taser.com/support/x12-xrep It's discontinued because it sucks, fine. Completely legitimates my point that current non-lethal tech is inadequate and needs to be improved. But shouldn’t the more prudent question be why are their people with knives that the police kill? Perspective I suppose..... It's not a more prudent question, it's a different question. Sure, I want to know why the guy wielded a knife in the first place & how to reduce these occurrences. But since he did, the other questions remain just as relevant. The kid shouldn't have died, end of discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Dunno, drop the knife. Or exit the streetcar rapidly with the knife? To say nothing of the effects tear gas would play on the officers, sans riot gear/masks, present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 It's discontinued because it sucks, fine. Completely legitimates my point that current non-lethal tech is inadequate and needs to be improved. A hypothetical, hypothetical perhaps? It's not a more prudent question, it's a different question. Sure, I want to know why the guy wielded a knife in the first place & how to reduce these occurrences. But since he did, the other questions remain just as relevant. The kid shouldn't have died, end of discussion. Chicken and the egg really........Officers likely would not have shot/tased the young man if he didn't brandish a knife aboard public transit.........So was this young man doing his best Blanche DuBois, masking a deeper underlying issue within Canadian society through false bravado against police.....or was he just a punk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Or exit the streetcar rapidly with the knife? To say nothing of the effects tear gas would play on the officers, sans riot gear/masks, present. Oh come on. Stand back, get a perimeter, fire tear gas into the streetcar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 A hypothetical, hypothetical perhaps? Chicken and the egg really........Officers likely would not have shot/tased the young man if he didn't brandish a knife aboard public transit.........So was this young man doing his best Blanche DuBois, masking a deeper underlying issue within Canadian society through false bravado against police.....or was he just a punk? 1 - Shots were fired FIRST. 2 - Tazer was used SECOND. The cop unloaded into the kid THEN used the tazer. False bravado with police? How do you come to that conclusion? What about false bravado by carrying a gun with a badge that grants you impunity and immunity for the most part? I have a gun, you have a knife. Who in their right mind would put themselves in danger by getting into the range of the knife? Clearly the cops had the advantage. You have made excuse after excuse and each time your excuse has been thrown to the floor. A person is dead and we are conditioned to look at the incident and move on without thinking about it. Good thing you are not a cop. I'd be concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Least shocking thing ever. The shooting cop is now getting threats according to the Police union head. I wonder if any of the people making threats are being investigated - isn't it illegal to make threats towards someone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Like what? Beating the wounded guy with an ASP would have been better than Tasering him? Look at that, you did it again. Who said beating him ...you did. Sorry you cant fathom other possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 I wonder if any of the people making threats are being investigated - isn't it illegal to make threats towards someone? Yes it is. The threats are via social media , IOW,nothing to be too concerned about. Consideriong the source (McCormack ) I wouldnt believe it anyhow. Police make lots of threats (mainly non verbal) to civilians if said civilian is in court for actions against a cop. Go sit in a courtroom and find out. Horrible intimidating and nothing is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 1 - Shots were fired FIRST. 2 - Tazer was used SECOND. The cop unloaded into the kid THEN used the tazer. Get your facts straight, the police officer shot at him and then another (likely a Staff Sergeant) tasered him after police approached (to render First Aid) but found he was still armed. False bravado with police? How do you come to that conclusion? What about false bravado by carrying a gun with a badge that grants you impunity and immunity for the most part? I have a gun, you have a knife. Who in their right mind would put themselves in danger by getting into the range of the knife? Clearly the cops had the advantage. Simple, the young man brought a knife to a gunfight You have made excuse after excuse and each time your excuse has been thrown to the floor. A person is dead and we are conditioned to look at the incident and move on without thinking about it. Good thing you are not a cop. I'd be concerned. Bookmark this thread, then in 6-8 months, maybe a year, once the investigation is complete, we'll see who's interpretation of the nights events are more synchronized with the eventual investigated findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Get your facts straight, the police officer shot at him and then another (likely a Staff Sergeant) tasered him after police approached (to render First Aid) but found he was still armed. Yes so my facts are straight. Gun was used first, tazer used second. Simple, the young man brought a knife to a gunfight Well we can stop right there. It's getting late, time to bring the boat ashore. Bookmark this thread, then in 6-8 months, maybe a year, once the investigation is complete, we'll see who's interpretation of the nights events are more synchronized with the eventual investigated findings. Right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Yes so my facts are straight. Gun was used first, tazer used second. Well no, you said: The cop unloaded into the kid THEN used the tazer. That's not correct, the officer that shot him did not have a taser......Tasers are only given to members of the ERT and Staff Sergeants. Well we can stop right there. It's getting late, time to bring the boat ashore. I think you should bring your boat ashore.........Remember, you asked: False bravado with police? How do you come to that conclusion? The young man was combative with police, only armed with a knife.......Not the sharpest knife in the drawer I suppose.... Right. Oh, I know I am......and that will be confirmed with the results of the eventual report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 No problem. 6-8 months for the report? Ok. Chances are the Rob Ford thread will keep going while this one has reached the end of the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 No problem. 6-8 months for the report? Ok. Chances are the Rob Ford thread will keep going while this one has reached the end of the line. We'll see....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 How many of the first volley of shots hit him? And where did the shots hit him? Why is that relevant? Clearly he was hit. Clearly, he was on the floor, even if still holding his 3 inch pocketknife. I've discussed this with a few guys since then, and without question none would have been particularly worried about a smallish teenager with a 3 inch blade if there were five of us and one of him. That's not even taking training and the vests and batons cops are equipped with into account. We certainly wouldn't have been particularly terrified if he was on the floor up inside a streetcar. Think about it. You're standing on a corner with four buddies and some smallish teenager waves a pocketknife at you and demands you all hand over your cash. What's your response? Laughter? Jeers? Most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) ....I've discussed this with a few guys since then, and without question none would have been particularly worried about a smallish teenager with a 3 inch blade if there were five of us and one of him.'.... Think about it. You're standing on a corner with four buddies and some smallish teenager waves a pocketknife at you and demands you all hand over your cash. What's your response? Laughter? Jeers? Most likely. There was a streetcar full of passengers and a driver who didn't laugh or jeer - but evacuated the streetcar. Edited August 2, 2013 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 There was a streetcar full of passengers and a driver who didn't laugh or jeer - but evacuated the streetcar. They didn't have any need to confront him, and there wasn't a bunch of them in a group. A crowd of strangers will act far differently than a group of friends. The latter is assured of mutual support. The former, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek L Posted August 3, 2013 Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 There was a streetcar full of passengers and a driver who didn't laugh or jeer - but evacuated the streetcar. Exactly........I can’t think of any part of my body getting spiked with a 3” knife that I’d laugh off………And even with police body armour, a 3” stick to parts of the neck, groin, armpit etc can be fatal in minutes…… I use a 3 1/2" knife for gutting large game...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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