Harper's New Cabinet, July 2013: Personal Loyalty

[Newfoundlander]

August, Harper has rewarded loyalty. Have you ever seen Chris Alexandre, Shelly Glover, Kellie Leitch, Michelle Rempel, or Pierre Poilievre on Power & Politics? They dutifully read their scripts regardless the questions being asked and often get their facts completely wrong, refusing to acknowledge it when called out. They're the worst kind of puppet MPs, serving only to recite the PMO's message. The Prime Minister is no "first among equals" here. He's in charge and has surrounded himself with bootlickers.

Just like all opposition critics.

[g_bambino]

And he's absolutely right.

For the most part, I thought so, too.

[g_bambino]

A shuffle to try and bury some recent scandals that could really hurt the PMs position.

Isn't that just politics as well?

[Topaz]

Isn't that just politics as well?

One could say that but its up to the voters to send a strong message to stop the scams, the schemes, the corruption in government . You were NOT elected to do such things that WE wouldn't be allowed to do, and so, you shouldn't either.

[g_bambino]

ts up to the voters to send a strong message to stop the scams, the schemes, the corruption in government.

Politics and democracy go hand in hand.

[cybercoma]

For the most part, I thought so, too.

he alluded to it, but didn't come right out and say it; Harper's gov is so bloated because cabinet ministers are on a shorter leash.

[Guest Derek L]

August, Harper has rewarded loyalty. Have you ever seen Chris Alexandre, Shelly Glover, Kellie Leitch, Michelle Rempel, or Pierre Poilievre on Power & Politics? They dutifully read their scripts regardless the questions being asked and often get their facts completely wrong, refusing to acknowledge it when called out. They're the worst kind of puppet MPs, serving only to recite the PMO's message. The Prime Minister is no "first among equals" here. He's in charge and has surrounded himself with bootlickers.

Are there some other, in your opinion, more deserving Conservative MPs that got short-changed? If the shoe was on the other foot, would not the more prominent NDP Members, those within the “shadow cabinet”, be the likely candidates within some mythical NDP Government? Also, would not the NDP "reward" up and coming MPs within it's own party.....how many first time NDP MPs are within the shadow cabinet?

As to partisanship, would you take a bet that NDP MPs that don’t tow the party line, say like John Rafferty and Bruce Hyer, would likely never sit in a mythical NDP cabinet? I would go so far as to suggest that the same outcome would entail with the Liberals and the Greens also.

[Guest Derek L]

Haven't heard any "um's" and "er's" from Justin Trudeau yet. His handlers just won't let him speak. Too bad - he's quite a hoot to listen to.

I think he tweeted something to the effect that only the PM maters.........Nothing worthy of a Churchill to be sure

[Guest Derek L]

he alluded to it, but didn't come right out and say it; Harper's gov is so bloated because cabinet ministers are on a shorter leash.

And how many "shadow cabinet" members do the NDP have?

http://www.ndp.ca/shadow-cabinet

I stopped counting at 40........

[The_Squid]

Shadow cabinet members don't get extra pay. It's just a way to disseminate duties.

Nor do they get any more staff than others.

And the shadow cabinet is based on the government's actual cabinet. Your comparison doesn't wash.

Edited July 17, 2013 by The_Squid

[Guest Derek L]

Shadow cabinet members don't get extra pay. It's just a way to disseminate duties.

Nor do they get any more staff than others.

And the shadow cabinet is based on the government's actual cabinet. Your comparison doesn't wash.

So why does the NDP need a larger "shadow cabinet" then the actual Government?

You bet it doesn't wash, the NDP's pretend cabinet is larger then the real McCoy.......And all they do is oppose, it’s not like they are making Government policy……Why should they get extra pay or larger staffs?

[The_Squid]

The "shadow cabinet" is nothing but a silly red herring. It has nothing to do with Harper's bloated cabinet. Try addressing the actual issue. The largest cabinet in the history of Canada from (supposed) fiscal, small government conservatives who are anything bu.

[Guest Derek L]

The "shadow cabinet" is nothing but a silly red herring. It has nothing to do with Harper's bloated cabinet. Try addressing the actual issue. The largest cabinet in the history of Canada from (supposed) fiscal, small government conservatives who are anything bu.

Red Herring? Why surely I am addressing it, clearly the Conservatives are able to run the actual Government, contrasted with the NDP, who's only task is to complain and they require more members to do it....Some might call the cabinet bloated, others diversified

....

The critique of the “bloated” Conservative Cabinet being only an avenue of reward for loyal party members, when it’s also claimed that the PMO actually runs the entire Government, is unfounded when compared to the NDP’s larger shadow cabinet……..is not a shadow cabinet gig a form of reward? Certainly it’s akin to being King Shit of Turd Hill, but I digress……So why does the NDP critique the Government on cabinet size, when their very own pretend Cabinet is considerably larger? It’s not like they actually do anything with it, other then oppose what the actual Government does……

So how does this demonstrate that if in some mythical scenario the NDP formed the Government, that they would shrink their already bloated shadow cabinet to a level less then the current Government?

Also, as a point of curiosity, can you confirm this is the largest cabinet in Canadian history……or is that a red herring?

[cybercoma]

One question....has any Govt cabinet shuffle ever changed your mind about the govt ? Even a tiny little bit?

Not for me it hasnt.

Voters don't care about cabinet shuffles. Only political junkies that argue minutiae on web forums and reporters on Parliament Hill concern themselves with such mundane details. I bet 50% or more of Canadians couldn't name 5 cabinet ministers and their positions.

In any case, I'm more concerned about how this will affect back benchers. Evidently, Peter Van Loan is not much liked by the backbench, who's also a little miffed at Pierre's appointment to Democratic Reform Minister. We'll see how tight those muzzles are in the coming year.

[jacee]

Yeah, they increased the inspectors but they also increase a number of unsafe tanker cars allowed and its well over 100% increase and so there really isn't enough inspectors and besides that those crude oil tankers are not safe for transporting.

Here are the issues:

lac-megantic-derailed-dot-111-rail-cars-investigated-long-before-disaster

While reports surfaced in the days following the incident of the potential for puncturing during accidents aboard DOT-111 tankers, the report from the NTSB also notes the housing around the cars top fittings are not effective in preventing impact damage.

...

The Association of American Railroads (AAR) ordered all DOT-111 cars built after Oct. 1, 2011, to include increased head and shell thickness, normalized steel, a half-inch thick head shield and top fitting protection.

But the NTSB report notes that cars built prior to Oct. 1, 2011, do not meet the new standards, and the safety benefits of the new cars are not realized if old and new tank cars are commingled.

In fact, the NTSB experienced a great deal of resistance when it pushed for retrofitting, according to a Reuters report, with the same AAR claiming it would cost more than $1-billion to retrofit existing DOT-111s.

It is not yet known which company manufactured the 131,000-litre cars involved in the Lac-Megantic incident, or whether they were built before or after the AAR order, or if the cars were a combination of both.

[Vendetta]

Results of the Fed shuffle? NOw Jason Kenney, the guy behind the scheme to let employers import cheap temporary foriegn labour at a 15% discount to what they would pay Canadian workers, is going to be in charge of employment. Watch for the Conservatives to continue the attack on the working class. The writing is on the wall. Ready to have your wages driven down, Canada? Remember to thank Harper.

[Bob Macadoo]

It’s not like they actually do anything with it, other then oppose what the actual Government does……

Actually they perform the job of keeping tabs on the ministry, and they do it with their aide, whereas apparently the minister can use the civil service under them to help in their partisan games.

So how does this demonstrate that if in some mythical scenario the NDP formed the Government, that they would shrink their already bloated shadow cabinet to a level less then the current Government?

Well after Mulroney had 39 ministers (and he was never known for patronage either) Chrétien's gov't went down to 23. I don't expect that but any decrease is acceptable.

Also, as a point of curiosity, can you confirm this is the largest cabinet in Canadian history……or is that a red herring?

See above; Harper and Brian, who would've thought.

[Charles Anthony]

I merged this thread with Topaz' thread.

Ch. A.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Harper is merely doing some political wrangling. The shuffle is a response to inquiries about running in the next election, Steve is filing the holes. In my view at this point public support is trending away from the entire Conservative Party, I think Harper will define his government with this shuffle, not to bolster his own power base but instead to attack political opposition. I am not convinced that the PM is confident in his own party....

[GostHacked]

The "shadow cabinet" is nothing but a silly red herring. It has nothing to do with Harper's bloated cabinet. Try addressing the actual issue. The largest cabinet in the history of Canada from (supposed) fiscal, small government conservatives who are anything bu.

It should show how bloated the federal government is on the whole.

[On Guard for Thee]

I'm thinking that the release of the conservative "hit list" so quickly is an indication that the muzzles may be coming off. I wonder if we will see a complete implosion before the next election.

[WWWTT]

August, Harper has rewarded loyalty. Have you ever seen Chris Alexandre, Shelly Glover, Kellie Leitch, Michelle Rempel, or Pierre Poilievre on Power & Politics? They dutifully read their scripts regardless the questions being asked and often get their facts completely wrong, refusing to acknowledge it when called out. They're the worst kind of puppet MPs, serving only to recite the PMO's message. The Prime Minister is no "first among equals" here. He's in charge and has surrounded himself with bootlickers.

Yep!

Lisa Rait is now the transport minister.

Probably the hottest hot button portfolio following the recent rail disaster!

I doubt she would have got the position if that horrible disaster did not happen.

Harper probably thinks that a woman can better handle or better deflect criticism?

WWWTT

[Scotty]

There are so many cabinet ministers and they do so little that most of them are nobodies. Harper removed a few nobodies, replaced them with more nobodies, and shuffled a few nobodies around. Nobody cares. Even if there weren't so many of them none of them have any independence to make decisions or statements on their own anyway. The US gets by with 15 cabinet secretaries. The UK has 22, plus a handful of ministers of state. Why do we need 39 ministers and 27 parliamentary secretaries? What do all these bloody people do to justify their salaries and allowances?

[Guest Derek L]

Actually they perform the job of keeping tabs on the ministry, and they do it with their aide, whereas apparently the minister can use the civil service under them to help in their partisan games.

So....what's "keeping tabs"? The Government proposes or does something, they complain....seems a rather simple exercise.....So why does the NDP require a larger "shadow cabinet" then the actual cabinet?

Well after Mulroney had 39 ministers (and he was never known for patronage either) Chrétien's gov't went down to 23. I don't expect that but any decrease is acceptable.

But why is a decrease warranted? Are there no positive attributes, in your opinion, born from diversification?

See above; Harper and Brian, who would've thought.

That's it? Do Deputy Ministers count? Clearly this refutes the claim that this is the largest cabinet in all of history though....

[Guest Derek L]

The US gets by with 15 cabinet secretaries. The UK has 22, plus a handful of ministers of state. Why do we need 39 ministers and 27 parliamentary secretaries? What do all these bloody people do to justify their salaries and allowances?

So what ministers and/or ministries would you deem surplus?