Freddy Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) @Freddy, Check out an old but good book, "The Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins. In it Richard describes how our genes act as selfish 'copy' machines no different than viruses. (That is also where Richard coined the term, "meme" to describe how information itself is spread through society as genes.) I have no religious beliefs and so lack a sense of concern for whether my genes get passed on or not. This is only on an intellectual level, however, not an emotional one. Our genes evolved to command us to 'feel' emotions and drives (like sex) to fit withing our environments. It is only after the fact that we 'survive' or have children (survival of our genes beyond our personal lives) do we actually credit survival or having children as a virtue. It is not the other way around. It is NOT because life's means of survival (personal or to our offspring) is some universal 'virtue' that assures that we exist. It's much simpler. Any living thing that didn't have strong urges to reproduce, likely didn't, so over a period of billions of years has eliminated its own DNA from the gene pool. It is alarming to me that something in our modern society is provoking people to not reproduce. I can visualize the possibility that western society even though has made great steps forward could actually be wiping itself out in the next 5 generation. Edited May 28, 2015 by Freddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 It's much simpler. Any living thing that didn't have strong urges to reproduce, likely didn't, so over a period of billions of years has eliminated its own DNA from the gene pool. It is alarming to me that something in our modern society is provoking people to not reproduce. I can visualize the possibility that western society even though has made great steps forward could actually be wiping itself out in the next 5 generation. In the 1800s, the first stats were being taken and recorded on a large scale. A Thomas Malthus of the day recognized that populations rise geometric while food supplies only rise arithmetically. This means that populations accelerate while food supplies only stay at a fixed rate. Charles Darwin used this to help determine his theory on Natural Selection. As food supplies are limited (as in poverty), animals (humans too) procreate more than when there is plenty and have a natural desire to do so via evolution. If this wasn't the case, such a species would more likely die out. You don't have to worry. It is normal for healthier populations to have less children. It isn't about people's normal 'choices' either. Everyone still mostly wants to get laid. I'm only guessing that you perceive that the average person has ease at getting laid when the opposite is true. Culture, including the law, is what "provokes" us NOT to reproduce as we normally would in nature. [it's not okay to rape someone, for instance. Also, we have age limits that didn't exist in our past.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I have no religious beliefs and so lack a sense of concern for whether my genes get passed on or not. Religious beliefs are not a necessity in order for one to care whether or not one's genes get passed on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Personally I see canada as almost of a sort of DNA grave yard if you can imagine such a thing. I am doubtful we are even replacing our own population, birth wise. Even with immigration I think our population will hardly grow. We don't produce anything, we even import our population. Birth rates continue to fall, but life expectancy continue to increase. I'm guessing birth rates hit zero around the same time that life expectancy reach infinity. The point of having kids is to give immortality to your genes... but if you're immortal anyway, then you don't have to. The children currently being born today in Western countries will likely have the opportunity to live as long as they want to live, as certainly before they reach old age, the disease of aging will have been cured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Birth rates continue to fall, but life expectancy continue to increase. I'm guessing birth rates hit zero around the same time that life expectancy reach infinity. The point of having kids is to give immortality to your genes... but if you're immortal anyway, then you don't have to. The children currently being born today in Western countries will likely have the opportunity to live as long as they want to live, as certainly before they reach old age, the disease of aging will have been cured. you have more faith in modern medicine then I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) In the 1800s, the first stats were being taken and recorded on a large scale. A Thomas Malthus of the day recognized that populations rise geometric while food supplies only rise arithmetically. This means that populations accelerate while food supplies only stay at a fixed rate. Charles Darwin used this to help determine his theory on Natural Selection. As food supplies are limited (as in poverty), animals (humans too) procreate more than when there is plenty and have a natural desire to do so via evolution. If this wasn't the case, such a species would more likely die out. You don't have to worry. It is normal for healthier populations to have less children. It isn't about people's normal 'choices' either. Everyone still mostly wants to get laid. I'm only guessing that you perceive that the average person has ease at getting laid when the opposite is true. Culture, including the law, is what "provokes" us NOT to reproduce as we normally would in nature. [it's not okay to rape someone, for instance. Also, we have age limits that didn't exist in our past.] It's perfectly fine, sure. They can do as they please. I'm concerned with the long terme consequences of this decision. Let's take 5 generation for example. My great great grand children could be sitting in a class of 30 kids and be the only Caucasian there. Edited May 28, 2015 by Freddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 It's perfectly fine, sure. They can do as they please. I'm concerned with the long terme consequences of this decision. Let's take 5 generation for example. My great great grand children could be sitting in a class of 30 kids and be the only Caucasian there. There's no guarantee your great great grandkids will be Caucasians. But I suspect I know why you would deem this a negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Religious beliefs are not a necessity in order for one to care whether or not one's genes get passed on. No, but the 'caring' about it is itself only a product of our evolution and a relative "delusion" of our consciousness. Our emotions and values are mostly assigned to us based on experience through windows of development periods (mostly in our youth) that determine how we value things emotionally. As to desiring to have progeny, while this is a living emotional reflection of both our genes and our environment, it is just an accidental factor of evolution. I happen to be more nihilistic intellectually and is why I mentioned my lack of religion. I happen not to think humans are NOT any more significant to the Universe than ants, bacteria or even rocks. Of course I am biased to favor humans but this is only because I have the condition of being human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 It's perfectly fine, sure. They can do as they please. I'm concerned with the long terme consequences of this decision. Let's take 5 generation for example. My great great grand children could be sitting in a class of 30 kids and be the only Caucasian there. An asteroid could also come along and destroy all living things on Earth. This too could be awful to think of. Anticipating our future generation's welfare is 'good' to some degree. But I have a feeling that 5 generations down the road might not even be feasible for our Earth! Population growth is exponential. I don't know what the known rate of growth is but know that we couldn't sustain that on Earth by then. [see http://www.prb.org/Publications/Lesson-Plans/HumanPopulation/PopulationGrowth.aspx] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) There's no guarantee your great great grandkids will be Caucasians. But I suspect I know why you would deem this a negative.Because I care more for humans that share similar common ancestry and similar common belief to my own then people with less common ancestry and different beliefs then my own. Some people would call that racist. I just call it a healthy love for yourself and your own. The same love you have for your family. Or is that also racist? Edited May 28, 2015 by Freddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) Because I care more for humans that share similar common ancestry and similar common belief to my own then people with less common ancestry and different beliefs then my own. Some people would call that racist. I just call it a healthy love for yourself and your own. The same love you have for your family. Or is that also racist? Except you didn't talk about beliefs or values. You only mentioned race. But even taking your follow up and face value, it certainly betrays a high level of chauvinism and an absence of basic humanity. Edited May 28, 2015 by Black Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Except you didn't talk about beliefs or values. You only mentioned race. But even taking your follow up and face value, it certainly betrays a high level of chauvinism and an absence of basic humanity. Because values will usually be similar within common ancestry. Didn't think I had to explain that. Our conversation only proves my point that we have lost touch with reality on many levels. racism is born out of a humans love for his family. To say it's a bad thing would be foolish. But yet, here we are as a society trying to eliminate racism. How is love for your family and your common ancestry a lack of basic humanity. That is a mystery too me. Or it's yet a other proof of the point I'm constantly trying to make. That we have lost touch with reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Because values will usually be similar within common ancestry. Didn't think I had to explain that. Our conversation only proves my point that we have lost touch with reality on many levels. racism is born out of a humans love for his family. To say it's a bad thing would be foolish. But yet, here we are as a society trying to eliminate racism. You don't really understand racism, then. That or, you know, you're a racist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 You don't really understand racism, then. That or, you know, you're a racist. Or I understand racism at a much deeper level then you and recognize that it's essential, and you have lost touch with the reality that loving yourself and your family more then others is perfectly fine. And that trying to eliminate racism is like trying to kill the family clan system that's been crucial to our survival. We are all racist and you don't need to be ashamed of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Or I understand racism at a much deeper level then you and recognize that it's essential, and you have lost touch with the reality that loving yourself and your family more then others is perfectly fine. And that trying to eliminate racism is like trying to kill the family clan system that's been crucial to our survival. We are all racist and you don't need to be ashamed of it. Perhaps sir would prefer a forum like Stormfront or something that would be closer to his views? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Perhaps sir would prefer a forum like Stormfront or something that would be closer to his views? No I want a Canadian forum where I can be with my own country men and women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 My level of racism is not that high, I may have more love for my own common ancestry then you, but have I made any hateful comments about other races? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 No I want a Canadian forum where I can be with my own country men and women. So a *Canadian* version then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 So a *Canadian* version then ? No this version is Canadian enough . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 No I want a Canadian forum where I can be with my own country men and women. Good luck....this forum is hosted in Texas and uses an American forum engine. Can't get more Canadian than that ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 this forum is hosted in Texas ... Maybe that's why we get such nationalistic/race-proud types coming in here. It's probably the BBQ they smell. In any case, taking it back to the OP, immigration and cultural mixing is evidently impossible to stop in a borderless digital world. BC, you can mock Canada's US obsession with some cause, but the world is getting smaller, even big ole Texas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Good luck....this forum is hosted in Texas and uses an American forum engine. Can't get more Canadian than that ! I love my texans allies just as much , so it should be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I love my texans allies ... I think you're looking to put a capital T on Texas, maybe "Texas über alles" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I think you're looking to put a capital T on Texas, maybe "Texas über alles" ? Not paying to much attention to capital letters right now. Anyway. Sounds like I'm exactly where I need to be too me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Not paying to much attention to capital letters right now. Anyway. Sounds like I'm exactly where I need to be too me. Not sure why: do you see a lot of other racists around here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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