Bixi

[August1991]

Montréal tente de convaincre Toronto de prendre la gestion du système de vélo en libre-service dans ses rues. Sans quoi, l'aventure torontoise de BIXI risque de bientôt prendre fin.

La Presse

This has all the makings of a he-said, she-said, Ottawa River divide. People choose sides and the next thing you know, we have a major federal issue - split on linguistic lines. And it's all because of a (heavy) bicycle.

Canadian history is replete with such clashes: from hockey referees to air traffic controllers to government cheques. Why not bicycles?

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In case you don't know, a Bixi (bicycle/taxi) is a bicycle that you can rent for a short period of time. First installed in Montreal, the concept has spread elsewhere. Bicycle stations exist in many places in the city and using a credit card (or membership key), you can take a bike from one place and leave it in another.

If I understand properly, the Montreal Bixi organization will be liable if the Toronto version does not make the system work.

Critically though, the Montreal Bixi organization has never released financial statements. In 2012, the city of Montreal signed (in catastrophic fashion) loan guarantees to keep the system functioning. More critically (IMHO), the Bixi organization does not have to pay rent or property taxes for the valuable property its bike stations occupy.

According to Statistics Canada, about 2% of Canadians use bicycles to commute. (Let's be honest: Canada is a country of ice and snow and using a bicycle makes sense for at most 6 months of the year. Moreover, Montreal has a mountain. IOW, Canada is not Holland.) But apparently, these 2% are vocal people. Promoters of Bixi are loud, and proud.

Edited July 4, 2013 by August1991

[Boges]

The Toronto Bixi program is in deep financial trouble. Many on the left think their loan should be forgiven and the TTC even thinks that the TTC should run it.

I think it's mostly a tourist novelty. If you live downtown you're either taking transit or have your own bike.

They just started a bike share program in New York City. It remains to be seen if it will be successful there.

When I was in London they had a similar station outside my hotel. I was tempted to try it but I found the bikes looked rather lame and I thought that walking is a better way to see a city than being on a bike.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Boges

[August1991]

I think it's mostly a tourist novelty. If you live downtown you're either taking transit or have your own bike.

In Montreal, it's not merely a tourist novelty. Many (younger) people view it as an alternative to public transit. Take the metro to go to work, and take a bixi to go home - depending on weather.

Lame? They're heavy. And sometimes it's hard to find an empty place at a return station.

Edited July 4, 2013 by August1991

[cybercoma]

The problem I had in Montreal was finding a spot to park it. In busy locations you often had to wait for someone to move. At other spots sometimes no bikes were available. Nonetheless I thought it was a good idea and lots of people use it while I was there.

[BubberMiley]

We don't have a bike share program in Winnipeg yet, but I commute by bike from April to November. I wouldn't have it any other way. Not only do I feel way healthier, it's cheap and fun. But I got a shower installed at my office, so that makes it more pleasant for everybody.

[Bryan]

We don't have a bike share program in Winnipeg yet, but I commute by bike from April to November. I wouldn't have it any other way. Not only do I feel way healthier, it's cheap and fun. But I got a shower installed at my office, so that makes it more pleasant for everybody.

I've done the same for years. Easiest way to keep in good shape during time your going to spend commuting anyway.

[AlienB]

La Presse

This has all the makings of a he-said, she-said, Ottawa River divide. People choose sides and the next thing you know, we have a major federal issue - split on linguistic lines. And it's all because of a (heavy) bicycle.

Canadian history is replete with such clashes: from hockey referees to air traffic controllers to government cheques. Why not bicycles?

------

In case you don't know, a Bixi (bicycle/taxi) is a bicycle that you can rent for a short period of time. First installed in Montreal, the concept has spread elsewhere. Bicycle stations exist in many places in the city and using a credit card (or membership key), you can take a bike from one place and leave it in another.

If I understand properly, the Montreal Bixi organization will be liable if the Toronto version does not make the system work.

Critically though, the Montreal Bixi organization has never released financial statements. In 2012, the city of Montreal signed (in catastrophic fashion) loan guarantees to keep the system functioning. More critically (IMHO), the Bixi organization does not have to pay rent or property taxes for the valuable property its bike stations occupy.

According to Statistics Canada, about 2% of Canadians use bicycles to commute. (Let's be honest: Canada is a country of ice and snow and using a bicycle makes sense for at most 6 months of the year. Moreover, Montreal has a mountain. IOW, Canada is not Holland.) But apparently, these 2% are vocal people. Promoters of Bixi are loud, and proud.

Are you suggesting Sledxi for the witner time? n think now much money the municipalities could save in not ploughing roads and sidewalks and instead renting out pedal operated ski sleds.

just pedal to move the ski poles / / / / / / / / / / /

Edited July 5, 2013 by AlienB

[Moonlight Graham]

According to Statistics Canada, about 2% of Canadians use bicycles to commute. (Let's be honest: Canada is a country of ice and snow and using a bicycle makes sense for at most 6 months of the year. Moreover, Montreal has a mountain. IOW, Canada is not Holland.) But apparently, these 2% are vocal people. Promoters of Bixi are loud, and proud.

But a lot of people commute in major cities from the suburbs and whatnot. People living downtown in a major city would be obviously the most apt to use these bikes. I just find it a bit of a weird concept, because that are interested in biking would likely already own a bike (I would assume), though some people living downtown may not own a bike due to storage space (in apartments/condos). But if enough people use them to legitimize the program, then I'm all for it.

[Boges]

But a lot of people commute in major cities from the suburbs and whatnot. People living downtown in a major city would be obviously the most apt to use these bikes. I just find it a bit of a weird concept, because that are interested in biking would likely already own a bike (I would assume), though some people living downtown may not own a bike due to storage space (in apartments/condos). But if enough people use them to legitimize the program, then I'm all for it.

But that's the question. In Toronto Bixi isn't making enough to be financially independent.

So does it deserve a subsidy from the government?

[BubberMiley]

So does it deserve a subsidy from the government?

It's an alternative to transit that, in the long run, could save money in transit subsidies and infrastructure requirements (not to mention health care costs). Once the program is established and reliable, more and more people are likely to use it as an option. It won't eliminate the existing subsidies to transit and automobiles, but it could very well lessen them over time.

[Moonlight Graham]

But that's the question. In Toronto Bixi isn't making enough to be financially independent.

So does it deserve a subsidy from the government?

I would lean to no, if it's not popular to legitimize itself.

[BubberMiley]

After 100 years, automobiles are still not financially independent. And they have been proven to have a detrimental effect on air quality even for people who don't drive.

So should the government continue to subsidize them to the extraordinary degree that they do?

[PIK]

It is a failure all over, and I hate to tell you this people,but the car is here to stay in major numbers for a long time coming.

[BubberMiley]

Who said the car wasn't here to stay? I was just wondering why people who get upset about a city providing a meagre subsidy to a bike program in the hopes of reducing greater future infrastructure and transit costs don't get upset about cities spending outrageous amounts of money subsidizing automobiles. Wouldn't it be less socialist if road costs were funded through a gasoline tax rather than through property and income taxes? It's the perfect user-pay model.

[guyser]

Who said the car wasn't here to stay? I was just wondering why people who get upset about a city providing a meagre subsidy to a bike program in the hopes of reducing greater future infrastructure and transit costs don't get upset about cities spending outrageous amounts of money subsidizing automobiles. Wouldn't it be less socialist if road costs were funded through a gasoline tax rather than through property and income taxes? It's the perfect user-pay model.

Especially coming from someone who lives in a subsidized,and heavily at that, city.

[August1991]

But that's the question. In Toronto Bixi isn't making enough to be financially independent.

So does it deserve a subsidy from the government?

Indeed in Montreal, the Bixi model is based on selling it to other cities. (IOW, it's a Ponzi scheme.) When the Bixi organization (it's not really a business) sought a loan guarantee from the city of Montreal last year, it was made explicit that the Bixi model depended on implanting systems elsewhere.

Most critically, IMHO, the Bixi bicycle stations occupy valuable city real-estate but they pay no rent, nor any property tax. These stations mean less car parking spaces. Car parking generates revenue for a city. So, what is the indirect subsidy of lost car parking revenues?

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To return to my OP, Gerald Tremblay (recent ex-mayor of Montreal) approved the BIxi deal. Several years later, no one knows the financial numbers.of Bixi. (I'm not joking. The Bixi organization has promised but has never released a clear financial statement.)

Let's review the situation:

1. A small, vocal urban minority loves bicycles.

2. Many Leftists hate Rob Ford.

3. The city government of Montreal, now in turmoil, has financed a bicycle system in Toronto that Toronto refuses to pay.

4. With Bixi, the sums of money may be minor: a few million. But then a mere $90,000 seems to be enough to bring down a federal Prime Miniister.

Edited July 5, 2013 by August1991

[BubberMiley]

1. A small, vocal urban minority loves bicycles.

2. Many Leftists hate Rob Ford.

Lots of people love bicycles. There's at least one in every garage on my block.

And speaking for the Left, I love Rob Ford with all my heart.

[August1991]

Lots of people love bicycles. There's at least one in every garage on my block.

And speaking for the Left, I love Rob Ford with all my heart.

And let's see where this goes when the city of Montreal accuses the city of Toronto of not paying its debts. And then, English-speaking Canadians in Toronto take a side, and accuse French-speaking Quebecers of not paying their debts.

What will English-speaking people in Calgary say? What will Protestants say of those Catholics? Whose side will they take?

This forum is replete with many Team A vs Team B type arguments.

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IMHO, this Bixi issue has the potential to become a federal issue.

Edited July 5, 2013 by August1991

[guyser]

------

Let's review the situation:

1. A small, vocal urban minority loves bicycles.

2. Many Leftists hate Rob Ford.

3. The city government of Montreal, now in turmoil, has financed a bicycle system in Toronto that Toronto refuses to pay.

4. With Bixi, the sums of money may be minor: a few million. But then a mere $90,000 seems to be enough to bring down a federal Prime Miniister.

Yes lets review

1) So? You have 50,000 subscribers, not bad at all. TO ...ugh 4600.

2) Many righties like peanut butter. BFD and not relevant at all

3) Toronto guaranteed the money so dont worry about it.

4) Maybe Montreal should have been aware they couldnt possess a private company and had to sell off the Int'l Division.