Shady Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 Snowden IS the bad guy. The guy had 4 laptops of sensitive information emptied by the Chinese government, and were suppose to give him a pass? Wtf is that? Quote
Argus Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 Its bizzare that gutless little authoritarian sycophants are actually calling for this guy to get strung up because he revealed to Americans that their government is spying on THEM!. Its a bizzaro world folks! The NSA is actually specifically NOT spying on them. It's spying on foreigners. And if those foreigners are communicating with Americans, and that's considered to be particularly suspicious then that information is passed to a domestic agency which requires a warrant to start 'spying' on that individual. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Shady Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 Its bizzare that gutless little authoritarian sycophants are actually calling for this guy to get strung up because he revealed to Americans that their government is spying on THEM!. Its a bizzaro world folks! But nobody's suggesting that. It's a great strawman though. However, I'm certainly calling for him to be strung up for revealing classified materials to hostile foreign governments. Quote
dre Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 The NSA is actually specifically NOT spying on them. It's spying on foreigners. And if those foreigners are communicating with Americans, and that's considered to be particularly suspicious then that information is passed to a domestic agency which requires a warrant to start 'spying' on that individual. You and I can only guess at that. Clearly they have put themselves in a position to intercept communications between US citizens, and clearly they have no problem with doing whatever they want to in secret then lying to congress about it. Remember this is the government that used the IRS to go after political opponents... and now they have the power to read peoples conversations if they want to, and absent someone like Snowden we would never find out about it. Seems like too much blind faith is required here... Are you really confortable with just "hoping" they dont misuse this information? Are you really comfortable with a scenario where the only way we can find out what our own government is doing is for a guy like Snowden to forfeit the rest of his life? Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
dre Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) But nobody's suggesting that. It's a great strawman though. However, I'm certainly calling for him to be strung up for revealing classified materials to hostile foreign governments. I think thats a good thing... Im hoping all the governments of the world keep leaking like sieves because apparently thats the only way the public can find out what they are up to in this day and age. I dont respect the right of the government to secrecy AT ALL beyond things like troop movements in active military operations etc. If I knew any government secrets Id post them on here in a heartbeat. Edited June 24, 2013 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Shady Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 I think thats a good thing... Im hoping all the governments of the world keep leaking like sieves because apparently thats the only way the public can find out what they are up to in this day and age. Nope, it's not a good thing at all. It's the complete opposite. I have no problem with him leaking to the American people. However, there's no reason to leak to the worlds worst governments. That doesn't help anyone. Quote
Hudson Jones Posted June 24, 2013 Author Report Posted June 24, 2013 The NSA is actually specifically NOT spying on them. It's spying on foreigners. What amazing trust you have. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Hudson Jones Posted June 24, 2013 Author Report Posted June 24, 2013 Quote of the month: "At a press conference to discuss the accusations, an N.S.A. spokesman surprised observers by announcing the spying charges against Mr. Snowden with a totally straight face. “These charges send a clear message,” the spokesman said. “In the United States, you can’t spy on people.” Oh the irony. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
GostHacked Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 Snowden IS the bad guy. The guy had 4 laptops of sensitive information emptied by the Chinese government, and were suppose to give him a pass? Wtf is that? Got a cite for that? Quote
GostHacked Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 Nope, it's not a good thing at all. It's the complete opposite. I have no problem with him leaking to the American people. However, there's no reason to leak to the worlds worst governments. That doesn't help anyone. Those governments already know what is going on as they are part of the whole spy thing. This is a global one and not just restricted to Americans. The focus should be on the spy program not Snowden. But as long as the media is able to keep Snowden in the spotlight instead of focusing on the program, people will soon forget they are being spied on. Quote
dre Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) Nope, it's not a good thing at all. It's the complete opposite. I have no problem with him leaking to the American people. However, there's no reason to leak to the worlds worst governments. That doesn't help anyone. If the US government is guilty of being an international cybercriminal then its good when criminals get caught. I hope ALL these countries get outted for ALL of their espionage activity. I personally think that all these secret shenanigans governments are up to dont make us safer... they actually put us at risk. Edited June 24, 2013 by dre Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
dre Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 Those governments already know what is going on as they are part of the whole spy thing. This is a global one and not just restricted to Americans. The focus should be on the spy program not Snowden. But as long as the media is able to keep Snowden in the spotlight instead of focusing on the program, people will soon forget they are being spied on. I dont think it matters if they forget or not... people dont care that they are being spied on, and some people are even thrilled about it. Thats the real problem... Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
Hudson Jones Posted June 24, 2013 Author Report Posted June 24, 2013 I hope ALL these countries get outted for ALL of their espionage activity. I personally think that all these secret shenanigans governments are up to dont make us safer... they actually put us at risk. Not sure what you're talking about. Look how well the listening on phone calls, the data access and the spying on Americans worked in stopping the Boston bombing. Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
Guest American Woman Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 The focus should be on the spy program not Snowden. The focus should be on the whole picture. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 I dont think it matters if they forget or not... people dont care that they are being spied on, and some people are even thrilled about it. Thats the real problem... It's their "right" to not care....more friends and likes on Facebook are a far higher priority. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 The focus should be on the whole picture. Right...Snowden is just a bit player in a longstanding struggle. The same battle happened over 10 years ago with (public & private) encryption/keys for online data. The U.S. and other governments insisted that it have access to private keys, as in the case of PGP (Pretty Good Privacy). This was an obvious clue as to what has been going on all along. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 dre, on 24 Jun 2013 - 1:56 PM, said: I dont think it matters if they forget or not... people dont care that they are being spied on, and some people are even thrilled about it. Thats the real problem... Partly because of conditioning through multitudes of different media. They have been conditioned to love the tyranny being slowly imposed on them. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 Right...Snowden is just a bit player in a longstanding struggle. The same battle happened over 10 years ago with (public & private) encryption/keys for online data. The U.S. and other governments insisted that it have access to private keys, as in the case of PGP (Pretty Good Privacy). This was an obvious clue as to what has been going on all along. I don't get the criticism regarding the focus being on Snowden as I don't see anyone doing that. It's what he's doing/done that people are focusing on. I have to wonder what he hoped to accomplish with his actions; what his intent was. Quote
Hudson Jones Posted June 24, 2013 Author Report Posted June 24, 2013 I have to wonder what he hoped to accomplish with his actions; what his intent was. You seriously wonder that? Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 I don't get the criticism regarding the focus being on Snowden as I don't see anyone doing that. It's what he's doing/done that people are focusing on. I have to wonder what he hoped to accomplish with his actions; what his intent was. I think what we are seeing is a transition from a Cold War footing when it comes to expectations for information security. These kids think they will be international heroes, not traitor spies like John Walker or the Rosenbergs. If Snowden broke the law, then he should have his day in court. The government really wants him back to debrief what has been compromised. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
dre Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 Partly because of conditioning through multitudes of different media. They have been conditioned to love the tyranny being slowly imposed on them. Yes but also our generation is pretty far removed from the struggle for individual liberty, and freedom from tyranny that has gone on for the last few hundred years. We take them for granted, and we forget how hard and long people before us had to fight to make government treat us good. And the perpetual war on terror basically makes people permanently stupid. Its basically a blank cheque for government, because a fear-dumb population will allow pretty much anything, and are easily parted with their money as well. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
GostHacked Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 I don't get the criticism regarding the focus being on Snowden as I don't see anyone doing that. It's what he's doing/done that people are focusing on. I have to wonder what he hoped to accomplish with his actions; what his intent was. His goal was to try to get through to people like you who seem to not quite understand where the USA is heading, or more to the point, where the USA is now. That, to me was his intention. The message is being ignored while the messenger is getting slaughtered. Quote
Guest American Woman Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 His goal was to try to get through to people like you who seem to not quite understand where the USA is heading, or more to the point, where the USA is now. That, to me was his intention. I'm not so much interested in what you think his intentions were as in what his intentions actually were. I would also suggest not making claims as to what I do or don't understand. I could give my take on what you "don't quite understand," but that would change nothing, so perhaps it's best to only speak for ourselves. The message is being ignored while the messenger is getting slaughtered. Again. No one is slaughtering him that I can see. It's about what he's doing/has done. Quote
Shady Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 His goal was to try to get through to people like you who seem to not quite understand where the USA is heading, or more to the point, where the USA is now. That, to me was his intention.The message is being ignored while the messenger is getting slaughtered.Complete nonsense. His message was being heard, until he started his 'cozying up to the world's worst governments tour.'Now he's just a clown sharing secrets with the enemy. Quote
GostHacked Posted June 24, 2013 Report Posted June 24, 2013 American Woman, on 24 Jun 2013 - 3:12 PM, said: I'm not so much interested in what you think his intentions were as in what his intentions actually were. I don't care what you are not interested in. You will get my opinion anyways. Quote I would also suggest not making claims as to what I do or don't understand. You do that often to others, so I would suggest not crying about it. Quote I could give my take on what you "don't quite understand," but that would change nothing, so perhaps it's best to only speak for ourselves.[/size] Again. No one is slaughtering him that I can see. It's about what he's doing/has done. Calling him a traitor, and charging him for treason, that is what we have heard from several in the US government. You sure we are paying attention to the same scandal?Whatever he does now or in the future is irrelevant to the information that has come out about the NSA spy programs. Quote
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