1 Question for Betsy

[Canuckistani]

1. How old do you think the earth is? Science says 4 billion years. What do you say?

[Sleipnir]

1. How old do you think the earth is? Science says 4 billion years. What do you say?

Actually 4.54 billion years

[bush_cheney2004]

Depends on what you consider the earth's beginning to be.

[DogOnPorch]

Depends on what you consider the earth's beginning to be.

Indeed. The atoms and molecules that made the Earth were brewed in a massive Population II star that went BOOM some time ago.

[betsy]

Speaking in faith, age of earth does not matter to me. God - thru the Bible - does not tell me to believe that earth is young or old. He tells me to believe that He created everythng. Since He says it is so - then to me, that is enough for me to believe that it's true.

There are some things in the Bible that I will not debate about, age of earth is among those....simply because it doesn't matter to me. Another one is the Rapture. Do we get literally lifted up physically or not? What rapture exactly entails doesn't matter.

The message that's important to me is that we should be prepared for such an event.

For curiousity's sake, I tend to believe what science says - that earth is older - since there are clear irrefutable evidences.

But putting an exact number on earth's age, I don't know. That's my answer: I don't know.

And accepting that does not collide with my belief since it is very possible that creation account given in Genesis is just a summary, or a very shortened version....perhaps to spare us from the nitty-gritty boring details....or perhaps that's the purpose of science, it's left to science to reveal.

Should science declares tomorrow that for whatever reason, it had made a grievous mistake in its calculations, and that they've found out earth is actually young - I'll have no problem with that either. It just isn't important to me how old earth is. To me, that's just small details that wouldn't make any difference to me at all. It's like for example knowing that there's gravity. Okay...there's gravity. And? Did knowing of gravity change me in any way? Physically? Mentally? Psychologically? So why should I fret over it? It's good to know, thank you...just for information sake.

I believe that science was created by God to glorify and magnify Him. Science is not discovering anything new.

Science is merely proving - and explaining with more details - what's already been written or alluded in the Bible thousands of years ago! Science is demonstrating what already exists.

Science is proving to us, The Bible is the Authoritative Book.

Edited March 18, 2013 by betsy

[GostHacked]

Well at least you now admit that you don't know how old the earth is. it's a start.But then on the next line, it's all comes down to the 'god of the gaps' argument, and the 'god did it' is a default position.

Did gravity change you in any way? Maybe not, but with that understanding of gravity, we are able to send rockets into the depths of space and remotely investigate Mars. Without understanding gravity, we could not have accomplished any of this.

How old is the bible? Is there any definitive verifiable evidence to show exactly how old it is?

[Canuckistani]

For curiousity's sake, I tend to believe what science says - that earth is older - since there are clear irrefutable evidences.

Older than what?

Where I'm going with this is that if you accept that the earth is 4 billion years old, the how long do you think humans have been on the planet? Science says homo sapiens have been here about 200,000 years. So 200,000 years ago, did God come down and plant us here? OTOH, there seem to be a lot of species that have disappeard - the dinosaurs for instance, long before we came on the scene. Did God just get tired of dinosaurs and get rid of them? Is that how you see new species coming to this earth - God comes down and just drops the off one day - millions of one species?

The catholic church has no problem with the concept of evolution. They just believe God started the whole thing and may be invisibly (to us) guiding it. Science can't argue against that, except to say it's unlikely,. because the supernatural is beyond its ken. But by the logic you've so often used on this forum, Catholic Christians, it sounds like, don't agree with what you beleive, so that would invalidate all of Christianity since they and you don't agree on this fundamental point. But personally I have no problem with what Catholics believe, since it doesn't deny what science tells us. The Dalai Lama, too, has said that if there is a conflict between Buddhist beliefs and science, Buddhism needs to change its beleifs. Good to see that some people of faith are open minded.

Actually what you said about God and the bible leaving it to science to reveal exactly how creation happened and is happening - you're already there. You already have the open mind that Catholics have. From that perspective, evolution is God's way of creating humans, and it just takes a lot longer than the time scales we think of. So why do you work so hard to deny evolution? What is it about this part of science that has you so upset? Why not just go with "God is slowly evolving his creation, and we may not be the end point of it either'. Is that too scary a concept, that we may not be his ultimate design?

Edited March 18, 2013 by Canuckistani

[betsy]

Older than what?

Where I'm going with this is that if you accept that the earth is 4 billion years old, the how long do you think humans have been on the planet? Science says homo sapiens have been here about 200,000 years. So 200,000 years ago, did God come down and plant us here? OTOH, there seem to be a lot of species that have disappeard - the dinosaurs for instance, long before we came on the scene. Did God just get tired of dinosaurs and get rid of them? Is that how you see new species coming to this earth - God comes down and just drops the off one day - millions of one species?

The catholic church has no problem with the concept of evolution. They just believe God started the whole thing and may be invisibly (to us) guiding it. Science can't argue against that, except to say it's unlikely,. because the supernatural is beyond its ken. But by the logic you've so often used on this forum, Catholic Christians, it sounds like, don't agree with what you beleive, so that would invalidate all of Christianity since they and you don't agree on this fundamental point. But personally I have no problem with what Catholics believe, since it doesn't deny what science tells us. The Dalai Lama, too, has said that if there is a conflict between Buddhist beliefs and science, Buddhism needs to change its beleifs. Good to see that some people of faith are open minded.

Actually what you said about God and the bible leaving it to science to reveal exactly how creation happened and is happening - you're already there. You already have the open mind that Catholics have. From that perspective, evolution is God's way of creating humans, and it just takes a lot longer than the time scales we think of. So why do you work so hard to deny evolution? What is it about this part of science that has you so upset? Why not just go with "God is slowly evolving his creation, and we may not be the end point of it either'. Is that too scary a concept, that we may not be his ultimate design?

Read my answer to you Canuckstani...the issues you're bringing up on this post has already been dealt with in my initial reply to your topic. Take note of that boldened part, too. Edited March 18, 2013 by betsy

[Canuckistani]

I'm glad you agree then. The bible just provides as summary, without details. So, God allowed humans to evolve much later than other animals. The bible didn't get into details, just has us created from mud, but what the bible/God meant by mud is the primordial soup. Ie we evolved out of the materials already persent on hand. I mean surely a big hand didn't come out of the sky 200.000 years ago and patted some mud together, breathed on it and bada bing, up springs Adaam. And if you follow that story literallly, then we're all descendants of incest, since either we're all descended from Adam and Eve - ie brother and sister incest, or we're descened from incest between Eve and her sons. She also must have been a very very busy little breeder, since by the time Cain was old enough to kill Abel, there were already all sorts of people about that Cain was worried would kill him. Or did got have a little mud to human factory going somewhere? If so, why doesn't the bible mention that?

But as you say, the bible is just a framework of creation without details. Science is providing the details, and the way humans came about was by evolution. It's nice when we can agree like that.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Canuckistani

[betsy]

I'm glad you agree then. The bible just provides as summary, without details. So, God allowed humans to evolve much later than other animals. The bible didn't get into details, just has us created from mud, but what the bible/God meant by mud is the primordial soup. Ie we evolved out of the materials already persent on hand. I mean surely a big hand didn't come out of the sky 200.000 years ago and patted some mud together, breathed on it and bada bing, up springs Adaam. And if you follow that story literallly, then we're all descendants of incest, since either we're all descended from Adam and Eve - ie brother and sister incest, or we're descened from incest between Eve and her sons. She also must have been a very very busy little breeder, since by the time Cain was old enough to kill Abel, there were already all sorts of people about that Cain was worried would kill him. Or did got have a little mud to human factory going somewhere? If so, why doesn't the bible mention that?

But as you say, the bible is just a framework of creation without details. Science is providing the details, and the way humans came about was by evolution. It's nice when we can agree like that.

WHOA! I did not say, "The bible just provides as summary, without details."

I said, "it is very possible that creation account given in Genesis is just a summary, or a very shortened version....perhaps to spare us from the nitty-gritty boring details....or perhaps that's the purpose of science, it's left to science to reveal."

Very possible. I was not stating a fact.

Any sensible, thinking person can clearly see what my statement meant....and it's definitely not an agreement to what you claim.

Either you unwittingly misunderstood....or you're trying to twist my words out of context, which is very dishonest.....and a clear show of desperation on your part. I refuse to deal with dishonest debators, for only a fool would listen or bother with liars.

Edited March 18, 2013 by betsy

[g_bambino]

I refuse to deal with dishonest debators...

[DogOnPorch]

Genesis makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever. You've got water before stars were even made...that's simply unpossible.

[g_bambino]

Genesis makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever. You've got water before stars were even made...that's simply unpossible.

With God, all things are possible.

But, he works in mysterious ways, so don't bother trying to understand how he makes the unpossible possible. Just nod and follow along.

[DogOnPorch]

With God, all things are possible.

But, he works in mysterious ways, so don't bother trying to understand how he makes the unpossible possible. Just nod and follow along.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI9ImScQGAo

[DogOnPorch]

Carbon dating and T-Rex? Oh well....