dpwozney Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 According to this article by Catholic News Service, "... on Sunday, Pope Francis said that violence exists in all religions, including Catholicism, and it cannot be pinned to one single religion. 'I do not like to speak of Islamic violence because everyday when I look through the papers, I see violence here in Italy,' the Pope told reporters. 'And they are baptised Catholics. There are violent Catholics. If I speak of Islamic violence, I also have to speak of Catholic violence,' he added." Do any of these "baptised Catholics" or "violent Catholics" commit violence in the name of Catholicism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Well, he's Pope. What's he gonna say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 According to this article by Catholic News Service, Do any of these "baptised Catholics" or "violent Catholics" commit violence in the name of Catholicism? The Catholic Church and community provides haven and means for sexual violence against children. Or you want to talk about the Catholic church's role in colonial history? No? He's wise to not start slinging mud at another religion. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 According to this article by Catholic News Service, "... on Sunday, Pope Francis said that violence exists in all religions, including Catholicism, ..." In the present church age, Christians are under New Testament Christian law and are instructed to not commit violence (Matthew 5:38-45, Matthew 26:52, Luke 6:27-28, Romans 12:19-21, Romans 13:9-10, 2 Corinthians 10:3-4, Ephesians 6:12, 1 Thessalonians 5:15, 1 Peter 3:8-9). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 The Catholic Church and community provides haven and means for sexual violence against children. Does the Catholic Church and community claim to do this in the name of Catholicism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Also according to the article by Catholic News Service, Although the death of the French priest was committed in the name of Islam, the Pope said that it is unfair to label an entire religion violent because of the actions of a few fundamentalists. "Mainstream Islamic law stipulates detailed regulations for the use of violence, including the use of violence within the family or household, the use of corporal or capital punishment, as well as how and when to wage war", according to this Wikipedia article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 The Catholic Church and community provides haven and means for sexual violence against children. No, it actually doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 No, it actually doesn't. Yes it does. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Also according to the article by Catholic News Service, "Mainstream Islamic law stipulates detailed regulations for the use of violence, including the use of violence within the family or household, the use of corporal or capital punishment, as well as how and when to wage war", according to this Wikipedia article. But there is no central agency which interprets those laws or when they have been satisfied. It's up to each individual imam, mullah and individual to make that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Yes it does. . Evidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Does the Catholic Church and community claim to do this in the name of Catholicism? The predators likely do. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 The predators likely do. . No, I don't think they do. I bet they beg forgiveness all the time. That's the problem with Catholics. They can be completely forgiven for just about anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 But there is no central agency which interprets those laws or when they have been satisfied. It's up to each individual imam, mullah and individual to make that decision. There are central agencies within certain "member states" recognized by the "United Nations" that interpret and enforce Islamic law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) Evidence? Vatican told bishops to cover up sex abuse: Expulsion threat in secret documents 1962 document, still in effect in 2001. The Catholic church has been preying on and exploiting children and vulnerable people throughout it's history, since the Romans took over control of Christianity, to benefit wealthy capitalists and the church. I really doubt that's changed. . Edited August 1, 2016 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Vatican told bishops to cover up sex abuse: Expulsion threat in secret documents 1962 document, still in effect in 2001. The Catholic church has been preying on and exploiting children and vulnerable people throughout it's history, since the Romans took over control of Christianity, to benefit wealthy capitalists and the church. I really doubt that's changed. . I guess that 1.2 billion Catholics are mistaken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Vatican told bishops to cover up sex abuse: Expulsion threat in secret documents 1962 document, still in effect in 2001. The document is concerned with keeping secret 'allegations' while they are investigated. In no way does that provide a 'haven' for violence against children. Your own cite says as much from the Vatican spokesman. 'This document is about the Church's internal disciplinary procedures should a priest be accused of using confession to solicit sex. It does not forbid victims to report civil crimes. The confidentiality talked about is aimed to protect the accused as applies in court procedures today. It also takes into consideration the special nature of the secrecy involved in the act of confession.'[/size] The Catholic church has been preying on and exploiting children and vulnerable people throughout it's history, since the Romans took over control of Christianity, to benefit wealthy capitalists and the church. I really doubt that's changed. Drivel. Just more desperate attempts at defending the EXISTING violence, including slavery and child abuse of the Muslim world by imputing historical abuse by Catholics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 The church covered it up and moved the predators around so they wouldn't be caught... The parish transfers of abusive priests were a pastoral practice that greatly contributed to the aggravation of Catholic sex abuse cases. Some bishops have been heavily criticized for moving offending priests from parish to parish, where they still had personal contact with children, rather than seeking to have them permanently returned to the lay state by laicization. The Church was widely criticized when it was discovered that some bishops knew about some of the alleged crimes committed, but reassigned the accused instead of seeking to have them permanently removed from the priesthood.[1][2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parish_transfers_of_abusive_priests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 Drivel. Just more desperate attempts at defending the EXISTING violence, including slavery and child abuse of the Muslim world by imputing historical abuse by Catholics. The Pope said it, not me: "If I speak of Islamic violence, then I have to speak of Catholic violence." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-isis-islam-violence-link-not-violent-religion-catholic-leader-comments-a7166656.html I just gave some examples. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2016 Report Share Posted August 2, 2016 The Pope said it, not me: "If I speak of Islamic violence, then I have to speak of Catholic violence." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-isis-islam-violence-link-not-violent-religion-catholic-leader-comments-a7166656.html I just gave some examples. . Like I said, he's the Pope. What's he gonna say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 The document is concerned with keeping secret 'allegations' while they are investigated. 'Investigated' ... by the church ... in secret They also call for the victim to take an oath of secrecy at the time of making a complaint to Church officials. ... There are too many authenticated reports of victims having been seriously intimidated into silence by Church authorities to assert that such intimidation is the exception and not the norm. All religious personnel are under threat of excommunication if they talk. Parents/complainants, once they sign the oath of secrecy ... are they too? In no way does that provide a 'haven' for violence against children. That is the result. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 Like I said, he's the Pope. What's he gonna say? Why would it not be okay for him to acknowledge that, in these days, people are killed in the name of Islam? When was the last time that people were killed in the name of Catholicism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 Well, he's Pope. What's he gonna say? Why would it not be okay for him to say that, in these days, people kill in the name of Islam, and then point out the last time that someone killed in the name of Catholicism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 (edited) Why would it not be okay for him to acknowledge that, in these days, people are killed in the name of Islam? When was the last time that people were killed in the name of Catholicism? I think he's saying something like "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Wise move. . Edited August 3, 2016 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 I think he's saying something like "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." "Rajm (رجم) is an Arabic word that means "stoning".[2][3] It is commonly used to refer to the Hudud punishment wherein an organized group throws stones at a convicted individual until that person dies. Under Islamic law, it is the prescribed punishment in cases of adultery committed by a married man or married woman.", according to this Wikipedia article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpwozney Posted August 3, 2016 Report Share Posted August 3, 2016 I think he's saying something like "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." He said, according this "full text of Pope Francis' in-flight presser from Poland", "I do not believe it is right to identify Islam with violence. This is not right or true." "Sharia or sharia law is the basic Islamic legal system derived from the religious precepts of Islam, particularly the Quran and the opinions and life example of Muhammad (Hadith and Sunnah) which are the primary sources of sharia.[1][2] ... ... Sharia is a significant source of legislation in various Muslim countries. Some apply all or a majority of the sharia code, and these include Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Brunei, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Yemen and Mauritania. In these countries, sharia-prescribed punishments such as beheading, flogging and stoning continue to be practiced judicially or extrajudicially.[5][6]", according to this Wikipedia article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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