Moonbox Posted February 20, 2013 Report Posted February 20, 2013 This article is pretty hilarious. Congratulations. A town of <200 people is managing to stay off the grid thanks to huge government subsidies. What did it take? A multi-million dollar processing plant (for a town with ~50 houses) and 47 nearby wind turbines (also generiously subsidized). What an accomplishment.... You know what an even bigger accomplishment is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_R._Ford-class_aircraft_carrier 100,000 tons of moving steel and 4200 crew members, none of which is hooked up to the grid. Government subsidies can accomplish pretty impressive stuff. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
TimG Posted February 20, 2013 Report Posted February 20, 2013 For the life of me, I don’t understand why the BC Government didn’t incorporate light/high speed rail into ongoing upgrades to hwy 1 and the Port Mann bridge replacement in the lower mainland Economics. Trains don't make economic sense in any but the highest population density corridors. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 20, 2013 Report Posted February 20, 2013 Economics. Trains don't make economic sense in any but the highest population density corridors. Like the Lower Mainland in a decade? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted February 20, 2013 Report Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) This article is pretty hilarious. Congratulations. A town of <200 people is managing to stay off the grid thanks to huge government subsidies. What did it take? A multi-million dollar processing plant (for a town with ~50 houses) and 47 nearby wind turbines (also generiously subsidized). What an accomplishment.... You know what an even bigger accomplishment is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_R._Ford-class_aircraft_carrier 100,000 tons of moving steel and 4200 crew members, none of which is hooked up to the grid. Government subsidies can accomplish pretty impressive stuff. Well still generating enough reserve power, after propulsion and hotel load is accounted for, that it could power a town larger then the German one in the OP Edited February 20, 2013 by Derek L Quote
Wilber Posted February 20, 2013 Report Posted February 20, 2013 Economics. Trains don't make economic sense in any but the highest population density corridors. It's that or widen HWY 1. For the most part it's still the same old four lane hwy from the late fifties. The valley's population is over ten times what is was back then. That's all that connects the country's largest port and third largest city to the rest of the country. Rediculous. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Guest Derek L Posted February 20, 2013 Report Posted February 20, 2013 It's that or widen HWY 1. For the most part it's still the same old four lane hwy from the late fifties. The valley's population is over ten times what is was back then. That's all that connects the country's largest port and third largest city to the rest of the country. Rediculous. Exactly…….Our reaction to the upgrades is they’ve changed the on-off ramps, built a wider bridge that doesn’t like cold weather, tolled it, and made a second HOV lane that nobody drives in………brilliant……..Aside from cost foresight, there is no reason that the wide median couldn’t incorporate a twined rail bed……….Hell, bring it out to the ’Wack……….. Quote
Moonbox Posted February 20, 2013 Report Posted February 20, 2013 Well still generating enough reserve power, after propulsion and hotel load is accounted for, that it could power a town larger then the German one in the OP The point I was trying to make was that with enough government money, a lot of goofy and impractical projects become possible. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
kairos Posted February 20, 2013 Author Report Posted February 20, 2013 Mass Oil is not neccessary, but it keeps some people filthy rich. Quote
Peanutbutter Posted February 20, 2013 Report Posted February 20, 2013 Mass Oil is not neccessary, but it keeps some people filthy rich. Do you suggest leaving the oil in the ground? What about other resources such as gold, silver, tin, copper, zinc, silicon? Should they not be extracted? Quote Ah la peanut butter sandwiches! - The Amazing Mumferd
Guest Derek L Posted February 21, 2013 Report Posted February 21, 2013 The point I was trying to make was that with enough government money, a lot of goofy and impractical projects become possible. I got that, but I also took it as a nod towards nuclear power and it’s viability. Quote
Guest Posted February 21, 2013 Report Posted February 21, 2013 Mass Oil is not neccessary, but it keeps some people filthy rich. What's mass oil? I tried Googling it and the best I could find was oil from Massachusetts Quote
Wilber Posted February 21, 2013 Report Posted February 21, 2013 What's mass oil? I tried Googling it and the best I could find was oil from Massachusetts They have oil in Massachusetts? Veery Inteereesting. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
GostHacked Posted February 21, 2013 Report Posted February 21, 2013 Agreed 100%……….As a personal observation, look at the increasing number of hybrid & compact cars on the roads today contrasted with 5-10 years ago……One could also look at putting further fuel taxes on “personal vehicles” in urban centers, then dedicating said revenue stream to further, smart and targeted, infrastructure & mass transit upgrades………….For the life of me, I don’t understand why the BC Government didn’t incorporate light/high speed rail into ongoing upgrades to hwy 1 and the Port Mann bridge replacement in the lower mainland……………..A fast commuter line from say Abbotsford to the Vancouver/Burnaby border, akin to what one would see in Japan, run down tracks along the center median, with stops incorporated along the way at major on-ramps with integral bus loops/hubs to Skytrain would have only made sense…………. I don't think taxing the hell out of everything is going to solve things either. But watch out for those electric buses. I almost got smoked by one as I could not hear it coming being an electric vehicle. I took extra caution the rest of my trip there. And I think I know the stretch of road you are talking about and yes, space already there for a leveled or elevated system. And it's hard to restructure a city to accommodate that kind of infrastructure. And if you go underground, still some major risks. Quote
Wilber Posted February 21, 2013 Report Posted February 21, 2013 Not that I go into Vancouver very much but if there was a light rail system I would use it when I do. As it is, unless I have a specific need for a vehicle down town (which is maybe once a year) I always drive into the Surrey park and ride and take Skytrain. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Bonam Posted February 21, 2013 Report Posted February 21, 2013 Not that I go into Vancouver very much but if there was a light rail system I would use it when I do. As it is, unless I have a specific need for a vehicle down town (which is maybe once a year) I always drive into the Surrey park and ride and take Skytrain. The skytrain is a light rail system... Quote
Wilber Posted February 21, 2013 Report Posted February 21, 2013 The skytrain is a light rail system... Skytrain is about the most expensive system out there and I am certainly not suggesting it be extended up the valley. An at grade system is all that is necessary to provide service from the valley that will connect to skytrain. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
TimG Posted February 21, 2013 Report Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) Skytrain is about the most expensive system out there and I am certainly not suggesting it be extended up the valley. An at grade system is all that is necessary to provide service from the valley that will connect to skytrain. Actually, at grade systems are among the worst for cost vs. benefit because they take out a lane that would otherwise be used for traffic. Elevated systems can be cheaper than subways and they don't interfere with in traffic. Edited February 21, 2013 by TimG Quote
Wilber Posted February 21, 2013 Report Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) Actually, at grade systems are among the worst for cost vs. benefit because they take out a lane that would otherwise be used for traffic. Elevated systems can be cheaper than subways and they don't interfere with in traffic. No need to take out any lanes to bring at grade in from the valley. Lots of room for a new rail bed. Edited February 21, 2013 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
kairos Posted February 21, 2013 Author Report Posted February 21, 2013 Do you suggest leaving the oil in the ground? What about other resources such as gold, silver, tin, copper, zinc, silicon? Should they not be extracted? Extract what we need. Don't extract what we don't need. Oil is going the way of the dinosaurs I just don't want it taking more species and us with it. Quote
Moonbox Posted February 21, 2013 Report Posted February 21, 2013 I got that, but I also took it as a nod towards nuclear power and it’s viability. Okay cool, it was. I'm all for nuclear power as the clean alternative right now. It's the only thing that even comes close to being economically viable after fossil fuels and hydro. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
eyeball Posted February 21, 2013 Report Posted February 21, 2013 Nuclear sounds like the way to go alright. Unfortunately there's no alternative to corruption in the industry of providing energy. Nothing seems to get farther from transparency and governmental integrity than nukes. That said I've never heard of anyone being killed or tortured over a windmill or a solar panel. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Accountability Now Posted February 21, 2013 Report Posted February 21, 2013 Nuclear sounds like the way to go alright. I have heard some positive things about nuclear power both in the US and Canada. Its unfortunate with the Fukishima incident but then again....why would you ever build a power plant on a fault line? Again...all of these energy sources have their application in the right location. Quote
GostHacked Posted February 21, 2013 Report Posted February 21, 2013 Okay cool, it was. I'm all for nuclear power as the clean alternative right now. It's the only thing that even comes close to being economically viable after fossil fuels and hydro. Surprised people still think nuclear power is clean or green. Your waste is radioactive for decades. Might be clean generation in terms of not emitting any extra Co2, however the other waste product is a lot more hazardous and has to be handled with much care. Quote
TimG Posted February 21, 2013 Report Posted February 21, 2013 I have heard some positive things about nuclear power both in the US and Canada. Its unfortunate with the Fukishima incident but then again....why would you ever build a power plant on a fault line? Again...all of these energy sources have their application in the right location. Japan's switch to to fossil fuels in the wake of their nuke shutdown has eliminated the trade surplus they had had for decades. This turns a hypothetical government debt problem (200% of GDP) into a potential catastrophe because foreign buyers are needed for the bonds in order to balance cash flows (currently most Japanese government bonds are held by Japanese). It worth remembering that all affected nuclear plants shut down safely after the 2011 earthquake as designed. The problem in Fukushima was caused by the tsunami which flooded the plant and destroyed its cooling apparatus. Modern plants have a passive cooling design and are not vulnerable to this type of problem. It is sad that so many uninformed people use this incident to draw incorrect conclusions about nuclear power. Quote
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