Feds to try to axe citizenship of overseas Canadian terrorists: Kenney

[jacee]

which situations?

The ones you referred to here:

It is just disconcerting when there are immigrants (and even the Canada-born children/grandchildren of these immigrants) who become Canadian citizens but, when push comes to shove, are more loyal to another country than to Canada.

[jacee]

which situations?

The ones you referred to here:

It is just disconcerting when there are immigrants (and even the Canada-born children/grandchildren of these immigrants) who become Canadian citizens but, when push comes to shove, are more loyal to another country than to Canada.

[Moonlight Graham]

What reason would I have to be loyal to a country which I made the conscious choice to leave in order to live in a better country? A country which made life so miserable that one wanted to escape? Why would one have greater loyalty to a crappy hellhole that they fled from than their wonderful new home? Methinks you are very confused about this "human nature" you speak of.

Culture, family, friends. There are lot of reasons.

If you lived in ie: Japan for a few years and became a Japanese citizen, and a Canadian & a Japanese squared off in the finals of an Olympic event, who would you cheer for? Maybe it both, but can't tell me you'd have zero emotional ties to the Canadian team. When you grow up somewhere and live there most of your life, then move to another country for however many years and become a citizen, it's human nature to have strong residual emotional ties to your former home, unless you 100% hated it for some reason. There are also many reasons why people move countries & become citizens, sometimes it for work/economics, marriage, family, war.

Furthermore, how is it that you think that Canada forcing people to renounce their former citizenships would make these people more loyal to Canada? If anything, they would be more resentful of Canada for having forced them to give up a useful means of access to other nations.

Interesting study:

A 2007 academic study concluded that dual citizens had a negative effect on the assimilation and political connectedness of first-generation Latino immigrants to the United States:

• 32% less likely to be fluent in English
  
• 18% less likely to identify as "American"
  
• 19% less likely to consider the US as their homeland
  
• 18% less likely to express high levels of civic duty
  
• 9% less likely to register to vote
  
• 15% less likely to have ever voted in a national election
  

That and some more interesting reading: http://en.wikipedia....ip#cite_note-37

Once again, none of the problems you describe have anything to do with dual citizenship.

That's your opinion.

[Moonlight Graham]

The ones you referred to here:

Some of the suspects of the Toronto 18 (some were immigrants, some were born Canadian), and you could also argue Ahmed Khadr.

[jacee]

Some of the suspects of the Toronto 18 (some were immigrants, some were born Canadian), and you could also argue Ahmed Khadr.

Were they dual citizens loyal to another country?

[Peanutbutter]

I applaud this measure being pursued by our government. it's about time terrorists who are dual Citizens have no where to hode. It's about time Cnaada catches up to the rest of the world.

If people are planning on being terrorists they have nothing to worry about, so I don't see what all the fuss is about. Not supporting this measure could be seen as sympathizing with terrorists but some people in the public.

We need to do all we can to protect our citizens who are law abiding and punishing those who would like to continue promoting terror while hiding behind their Canadian citizenship.

Disgusting.

[BubberMiley]

I agree. And people shouldn't criticize Harper so much either. They should recognize him as the father figure he is for this country.

[guyser]

I applaud this measure being pursued by our government. it's about time terrorists who are dual Citizens have no where to hode. It's about time Cnaada catches up to the rest of the world.

How many we talking about. ..........1? Maybe 2?

whew...we need a nuclear bomb to remove that pesky tree stump huh?

By the way ,a born Canadian cant have his citizenship overturned, there is no option for govt to send him anywhere.

Its a dumb idea and panders to the low fruit thinkers

[guyser]

I agree. And people shouldn't criticize Harper so much either. They should recognize him as the father figure he is for this country.

Mr C.....is that you ?

[Peanutbutter]

How many we talking about. ..........1? Maybe 2?

whew...we need a nuclear bomb to remove that pesky tree stump huh?

By the way ,a born Canadian cant have his citizenship overturned, there is no option for govt to send him anywhere.

Its a dumb idea and panders to the low fruit thinkers

This isn't about born Canadians it's about people who come to Canada and have dual citizenship's.

Well if it's so few people I don't see what some people are so worried about to be honest. People are are dual Canadian citizens who are involved with terrorist acts don't deserve to be Canadians. End of story. It's not a right it's a privilege.

I don't see how public safety is a dumb idea, please explain.

[guyser]

This isn't about born Canadians it's about people who come to Canada and have dual citizenship's.

Nope, read the OP , says nothing about people who come here, just those who hold dual.

Well if it's so few people I don't see what some people are so worried about to be honest. People are are dual Canadian citizens who are involved with terrorist acts don't deserve to be Canadians. End of story. It's not a right it's a privilege.

And laws exist to punish them. So be it.

If a canuck does terrorist acts, they pay the price. Did the shoe bomber lose his status?

I don't see how public safety is a dumb idea, please explain.

What the threat to our public safety? Most idiots who cause trouble were born here thus nothing can be done about the citizenship

[Signals.Cpl]

This isn't about born Canadians it's about people who come to Canada and have dual citizenship's.

Well if it's so few people I don't see what some people are so worried about to be honest. People are are dual Canadian citizens who are involved with terrorist acts don't deserve to be Canadians. End of story. It's not a right it's a privilege.

I don't see how public safety is a dumb idea, please explain.

How does this solve anything other than Canada washing its hands and calling it someone else's mess? This prevents nothing as it deals with the consequences... What happens if they renounce their second citizenship before they commit a terrorist act? Cant strip them of their citizenship if they have nowhere to go now can you?

[Peanutbutter]

How does this solve anything other than Canada washing its hands and calling it someone else's mess? This prevents nothing as it deals with the consequences... What happens if they renounce their second citizenship before they commit a terrorist act? Cant strip them of their citizenship if they have nowhere to go now can you?

We as country are not bound to take in and keep all the worlds garbage. The well being of terrorists shouldn't be our business.

As for your second part you're correct the proposed new law only deals with dual citizens.

I don't understand why you're so concerned about this. The only people who should be worried about this are people who are dual citizens and planning on committing terrorist acts.

[Signals.Cpl]

We as country are not bound to take in and keep all the worlds garbage. The well being of terrorists shouldn't be our business.

Yet you are not suggesting we keep the "garbage" away from Canada in the first place but give them the chance to do damage using a Canadian passport and then remove the citizenship once the deed is done.

As for your second part you're correct the proposed new law only deals with dual citizens.

Which means that it will be ineffective as the terrorist will give up their other citizenship and will be Canada's problem which solves absolutely nothing. Seems to me you want a feel good "solution" that does not solve any problem whatsoever instead it give the illusion of solving the problem.

I don't understand why you're so concerned about this.

I am have duel citizenship and I know enough about history to realize that this has happened many times before in every corner of the world and it rarely goes well for the people affected.

The only people who should be worried about this are people who are dual citizens and planning on committing terrorist acts.

So what happens when they renounce their citizenship before they commit the act? Cant do anything about them and now you have pissed off half the country without making Canada safer in any way shape or form... What would this law accomplish? You may think that terrorists are idiots but I don't hold that opinion and I think that if this law came in to effect they will just adapt to the situation that is if they even care. What you are telling people here is that if you are a dual citizen and accused or found guilty of terrorism you will be stripped of your citizenship regardless of which third world hellhole accused you or found you guilty of terrorism and all you have to do to get around this law is renounce your other citizenship...

[jacee]

We as country are not bound to take in and keep all the worlds garbage. The well being of terrorists shouldn't be our business.

As for your second part you're correct the proposed new law only deals with dual citizens.

I don't understand why you're so concerned about this. The only people who should be worried about this are people who are dual citizens and planning on committing terrorist acts.

What about non-dual Canadians who commit terrorist acts ... would you strip their citizenship too?

The issue is having different laws for different 'classes' of citizens.

[Peanutbutter]

What about non-dual Canadians who commit terrorist acts ... would you strip their citizenship too?

The issue is having different laws for different 'classes' of citizens.

The new proposed law seems to deal with dual citizens only. primarily targeting the so called "Canadians of convenience". It's not having different classes of citizens at all.

If people don't want to lose their citizenship then they shouldn't be involved with terrorism. Simple and makes perfect sense. Dual citizenship is not a right but a privilege. If they value their citizenship then they should conduct themselves accordingly.

[cybercoma]

The new proposed law would then be unconstitutional. If the punishment is that you have your citizenship revoked if you commit a terrorist act abroad, then they should revoke it from both Canadian citizens and dual-citizens. Otherwise, people with dual-citizenship should be dealt with exactly the same as any other citizen that does this. You can't treat people with dual-citizenships as though they are foreigners. They could very well have been born here.

Edited February 15, 2013 by cybercoma

[Signals.Cpl]

The new proposed law seems to deal with dual citizens only.

That is 100% wrong because it deals with nothing, it makes dual citizens second rate citizens while terrorist renounce their citizenship and won't suffer the consequences so all in all it solves nothing.

primarily targeting the so called "Canadians of convenience".

No it doesn't... unless you are suggesting all "Canadians of convenience" are terrorists if they are not terrorists this does not affect them in this form.

It's not having different classes of citizens at all.

Sure it does, one can lose their citizenship the other cannot which makes 2 classes of citizens.

If people don't want to lose their citizenship then they shouldn't be involved with terrorism.

Or simply renounce your other citizenship.

Simple and makes perfect sense.

Something that this proposed law is not and does not do.

Dual citizenship is not a right but a privilege.

And this is proposing to make it a punishment of sorts, if you are a dual citizen you can lose your Canadian citizenship if you are not you cannot lose it.

If they value their citizenship then they should conduct themselves accordingly.

Or once again renounce their other citizenship and negate this law...

[shortlived]

If the government was as committed to making Canada more like America as pundits say this wouldn't even be an issue they'd just stop recognizing dual nationality all together and make a internment Camp on Anticosti Island These moves just appear as a means to take pressure of people finding out who backed the terrorism. Remember Harper saying "I didn't know him, we never met before, I didn't ask for his number, the number bank account transfers weren't from me, I didn't send him the message when to launch the attack. I was with my wife, and these 8 RCMP officers the whole time I swear, come on guys you'll back me up right?" when than Algerian gas plant stuff heated up when they started saying Canadians helped coordinate it. Clearly the government will wise up and start sending brown people instead of white people over to do their dirty work. Its all part of the Harper Government Enlightenment. Clearly the Harper Government praising Israeli ethics has turned the Harper Government into the new Hezbollah of the West, under the auspice of Mossad operational parameters. It is as easy to see as glass on a sunny day. The clear give away is that he commented to the press. He doesn't even do that for events that happen in Canada. Something was making him nervous... so nervous he wouldn't get through an Israeli airport.

Edited February 15, 2013 by shortlived

[Signals.Cpl]

If the government was as committed to making Canada more like America as pundits say this wouldn't even be an issue they'd just stop recognizing dual nationality all together and make a internment Camp on Anticosti Island

I am pretty sure the US has some form of Dual citizenship.

[bush_cheney2004]

If Canadian citizenship is granted to other nationals by a process defined and administered by government, it is logical to think that such citizenship can be revoked in the very same way.

[shortlived]

I am pretty sure the US has some form of Dual citizenship.

Don't ask don't tell was killed too. No they really don't much. It pretty goes pretty much like this. If it matters it will if it doesn't it won't. US is your first and only citizenship for governmental dealings. They won't recognize alternative passports. The US does not recognize dual nationality of its citizens by application. " a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship." This is problematic because while people have claimed citizenship they have not lost US citizenship so it is not absolutely exercised. But any American travelling in or out of the US must do so with their US passport. "Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance" Dual nationality is not something the US supports occurring US citizens who are us citizens cannot attempt to secure an additional nationality without risking the loss of their American citizenship.|Based on the U.S. Department of State regulation on dual citizenship (7 FAM 1162), the Supreme Court of the United States has stated that dual citizenship is a "status long recognized in the law" and that "a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both. The mere fact he asserts the rights of one citizenship does not without more mean that he renounces the other," (Kawakita v. U.S., 343 U.S. 717) (1952). In Schneider v. Rusk 377 U.S. 163 (1964), the US Supreme Court ruled that a naturalized U.S. citizen has the right to return to his native country and to resume his former citizenship, and also to remain a U.S. citizen even if he never returns to the United States.| However, "Although naturalizing citizens are required to undertake an oath renouncing previous allegiances," If someone gains citizenship by allegiance, they are effectively renouncing their citizenship oath in naturalizing to the US "and are effectively a traitor" to their previous nation. This means the only "true" dual nationals are where citizenship is conferred by the other country by default such as jus sanguis or jus soli and is not sought, and the person is not a naturalized American. Edited February 15, 2013 by shortlived

[bush_cheney2004]

The United States formally recognizes U.S. Dual Citizenship. Naturalized U.S. citizens do not lose their former citizenship unless it is revoked by law in the other nation.

[shortlived]

The United States formally recognizes U.S. Dual Citizenship. Naturalized U.S. citizens do not lose their former citizenship unless it is revoked by law in the other nation.

INS doesn't have a formal policy on this and naturalization requires a renunciation of allegiances which citizenship is a form of allegigence. So I think you are applying a far broader consideration than what law could be smacked down on people. Because you are basically refuting the US citizenship pledge as having legal force. You are sayin this is just for show and means nothing?http://www.uscis.gov...000b92ca60aRCRD The first line is most indicative of this "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen" take this in contast to the Canadian oath of allegiance. I, [name], do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors. So help me God.^[ see how these two things may not line up.. #2 of UCIS clearly states "Renounce and abjure absolutely and entirely all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which the applicant was before a subject or citizen;"

Edited February 15, 2013 by shortlived

[bush_cheney2004]

INS doesn't have a formal policy on this and naturalization requires a renunciation of allegiances which citizenship is a form of allegigence. So I think you are applying a far broader consideration than what law could be smacked down on people.

This thread isn't about US Dual Citizenship, and US naturalization law does not apply. The U.S. may have more dual citizens than the entire population of Canada.