Rob Ford, mayor of Toronto UPDATES

[On Guard for Thee]

In all honestly I wonder what percent of the population of the city of Toronto really care that Rob Ford smokes crack. He's packing a lot more weight than most dopers do, but then city hall probably has a pretty good cafeteria.and he probably doesn't have to pay so he can have the best of both worlds.

[Black Dog]

I guess we need new attacks on ford so people will stay away from the pervert that was making these perverted rules for youngsters at school that just got charged with child porn. Simply amazing.

What does one have to do with the other?

[guyser]

What does one have to do with the other?

Deflection, but you knew that.

shady...So what? That stuff was mentioned dozens of pages ago. Why are you still talking about it? Does all that mean the video exists? Nope

Gee, because you asked. Stay on focus please.

Nobody mentioned the video for pages now....well except for you.

[Keepitsimple]

Ford is an imperfect man doing a pretty good job of changing the fiscal mentality of the Office of the Mayor. There have been many imperfect mayors, Prime Ministers, Governors and Presidents - and still been viewed as having a positive impact. Do you really think that Monica Lewinsky and Paula Jones were the only women that Bill Clinton "serviced"? He got a free ride until he got caught red-peckered. Even after almost being removed from office - he was never treated with the disdain that Rob Ford's enemies have shown. Then again, he wasn't fat......nor was he on the Right of the political spectrum.

There are a lot of Torontonians who see some of themself in this imperfect man. That's why the Toronto Star vendetta has been such an utter failure. Looks good on those perfect people.

[guyser]

He got a free ride until he got caught red-peckered. Even after almost being removed from office - he was never treated with the disdain that Rob Ford's enemies have shown.

Your memory has failed you. Reems of disdain were heaped on Clinton.

That's why the Toronto Star vendetta has been such an utter failure. Looks good on those perfect people.

Ah yes, Toronto Star manufactured all of this.

Damn, why didnt I think of this!

[Black Dog]

Ford is an imperfect man doing a pretty good job of changing the fiscal mentality of the Office of the Mayor.

You mean by lying about the city's fiscal state?

There have been many imperfect mayors, Prime Ministers, Governors and Presidents - and still been viewed as having a positive impact.

What positive impact has Ford had? Seriously: what has he accomplished?

There are a lot of Torontonians who see some of themself in this imperfect man. That's why the Toronto Star vendetta has been such an utter failure. Looks good on those perfect people.

This is actually a good explanation of Ford's appeal. Unfortunately, despite of (or perhaps because of) his everyman facade, he's still a shitty mayor.

[Keepitsimple]

What positive impact has Ford had? Seriously: what has he accomplished?

This is actually a good explanation of Ford's appeal. Unfortunately, despite of (or perhaps because of) his everyman facade, he's still a shitty mayor.

I know that there are plenty of cost-cutting measures that have only just begun under Joe Peneschetti.....but some of the visible benefits that Ford has given us include:

1) A four year labour contract with city workers - without a strike. And the contract goes beyond the Pan Am games which takes away the strike capabilty and holding Toronto hostage at a critical time. A good result without throwing money and benefits at the Unions.

2) Taking action on Toronto Community Housing. Appointing Gene Jones has done wonders. Derek Ballantyne might have been pals with the elite but he never showed up in the buildings. Gene Jones has provided real leadership - people in the projects know that he's trying - and Ford himself has done walk-arounds and done his best to give hope and take action. Sometimes the little things are important - especially to the vulnerable.

3) Contracting out garbage collection. Seems like a small victory but it laid bare the inefficiency and entitled approach of the Unions - to the point that they've felt the pressure and started to improve. They've still got a ways to go but it has proven that introducing competition has major benefits.

As we've seen with a 60 year old Subway and creaky water pipes and backed-up sewers, Cities need to get back to providing basic services and planning to maintain those services in the coming years. It's not about silly meetings for plastic bags and non-citizen voting rights. Back to basics. Use our money wisely. It's a fiscal attitude that the imperfect man has brought to City Hall.

[Black Dog]

I know that there are plenty of cost-cutting measures that have only just begun under Joe Peneschetti.....but some of the visible benefits that Ford has given us include:

1) A four year labour contract with city workers - without a strike. And the contract goes beyond the Pan Am games which takes away the strike capabilty and holding Toronto hostage at a critical time. A good result without throwing money and benefits at the Unions.

2) Taking action on Toronto Community Housing. Appointing Gene Jones has done wonders. Derek Ballantyne might have been pals with the elite but he never showed up in the buildings. Gene Jones has provided real leadership - people in the projects know that he's trying - and Ford himself has done walk-arounds and done his best to give hope and take action. Sometimes the little things are important - especially to the vulnerable.

3) Contracting out garbage collection. Seems like a small victory but it laid bare the inefficiency and entitled approach of the Unions - to the point that they've felt the pressure and started to improve. They've still got a ways to go but it has proven that introducing competition has major benefits.

All from his first few months in office when he was riding high. Since then? Nothing.

As we've seen with a 60 year old Subway and creaky water pipes and backed-up sewers, Cities need to get back to providing basic services and planning to maintain those services in the coming years. It's not about silly meetings for plastic bags and non-citizen voting rights. Back to basics. Use our money wisely. It's a fiscal attitude that the imperfect man has brought to City Hall.

Ford has shown plenty of willingness to engage in the kind of frivolity you're talking about, whether it's entertaining his brother's crack pot schemes for the portlands or pushing casinos and subways to nowhere. He has done nothing to improve the state of the city's infrastructure: if anything, his parsimony means we'll have an even bigger backlog to deal with down the road. But I guess as long as he blusters about keeping taxes down (even if he continuously lies about the extent of his achievements) the plebs will eat that s**t up.

[Wild Bill]

But I guess as long as he blusters about keeping taxes down (even if he continuously lies about the extent of his achievements) the plebs will eat that s**t up.

Of course they will, BD. What's their alternative? Going back to what they had before - a mayor and politicians who kept driving taxes UP?

[Black Dog]

Of course they will, BD. What's their alternative? Going back to what they had before - a mayor and politicians who kept driving taxes UP?

I dunno. A semi-competent mayor who recognizes both the value of a dollar and that if you want nice things like, say, a city that actually functions or even subways! subways! subways!, you have to pay for them?

Edited July 12, 2013 by Black Dog

[Keepitsimple]

He has done nothing to improve the state of the city's infrastructure: if anything, his parsimony means we'll have an even bigger backlog to deal with down the road. But I guess as long as he blusters about keeping taxes down (even if he continuously lies about the extent of his achievements) the plebs will eat that s**t up.

You're missing the big picture. If you don't get finances under strict control, you can't invest properly in infrastructure. You don't want to raise taxes just to keep an inefficient city running the way it always has. You want to get it running efficiently first - and then raise taxes strategically to start investing in infrastructure repairs and building for the future. Same thing with the province. They have a deficit of over 10 billion which they say can be eliminated by 2017 (if you believe them). If they can knock 10 billion off that easily, why not knock off 12 billion and use the 2 billion for transit (as an example). Why does it always have be "we'll look for revenue tools". The revenue tools are already there - run the damn government efficiently and if you raise taxes, make sure it continually goes to basic infrastructure - every single year.

[Black Dog]

You're missing the big picture. If you don't get finances under strict control, you can't invest properly in infrastructure. You don't want to raise taxes just to keep an inefficient city running the way it always has. You want to get it running efficiently first - and then raise taxes strategically to start investing in infrastructure repairs and building for the future.

Where are these efficiencies? Under Ford, Toronto's fiscal situation is virtually unchanged from its Miller days. The city's net operating budget has actually increased. The reality is Toronto was never some sinkhole of waste that Ford made it out to be. And the kind of money they need to bring things up to snuff vastly exceeds whatever small savings they can find through efficiences (contracting out garbage collection is supposed to save $11 million a year. That's change-in-the-couch-cushion stuff for a multi-billion dollar budget).

[Wild Bill]

I dunno. A semi-competent mayor who recognizes both the value of a dollar and that if you want nice things like, say, a city that actually functions or even subways! subways! subways!, you have to pay for them?

Your example is both old and false. It implies that the efficiency of the city is high and that there is little waste. Therefore if we want better services we must pay more.

In actual fact, Toronto historically pays more than it should and on too many things that are not primary needs of the city.

How many pot holes could be filled for the cost of some of those arts grants? What about the insistence of union only manufacturers for new street cars?

And on and on and on.

[Keepitsimple]

And on and on and on.

delete......

Edited July 13, 2013 by Keepitsimple

[Who's Doing What?]

Will you people let the mayor smoke his crack in peace.

He is reaching out to the less fortunate of the city by giving them financial aid, albeit in exchange for crack, but he is still counselling our youth.

his prowess on the football field should distract you from everything else.

lol

Man this poor bugger has been hit from every angle on every issue. I don't agree with MOST of his policies but can we call a witch hunt a witch hunt here?

He reminds me of Chris Farley in Black Sheep.

I used to not like him, but now I just feel sorry for him.

The Left has become the Right. And shame on them for doing it.

[Black Dog]

Your example is both old and false.

What example is old and false?

It implies that the efficiency of the city is high and that there is little waste. Therefore if we want better services we must pay more.

In actual fact, Toronto historically pays more than it should and on too many things that are not primary needs of the city.

How many pot holes could be filled for the cost of some of those arts grants? What about the insistence of union only manufacturers for new street cars?

And on and on and on.

Prove it, then. Or, like Ford, are you better at slogans than hard facts?

Edited July 14, 2013 by Black Dog

[WWWTT]

Your example is both old and false. It implies that the efficiency of the city is high and that there is little waste. Therefore if we want better services we must pay more.

In actual fact, Toronto historically pays more than it should and on too many things that are not primary needs of the city.

How many pot holes could be filled for the cost of some of those arts grants? What about the insistence of union only manufacturers for new street cars?

And on and on and on.

Provide the link to back up your opinion.

WWWTT

[Wild Bill]

Provide the link to back up your opinion.

WWWTT

Why should I bother?

You won't accept it anyway. Goes against your catechism.

This is pointless. Like arguing with a Jehovah Witness.

Looks like I need to start an 'ignore' list again.

[cybercoma]

entertaining his brother's crack pot schemes

What you did there...I see it.

[Shady]

What you did there...I see it.

Me too. You guys find that video yet?

[BubberMiley]

Me too. You guys find that video yet?

It's important to talk about something in order to accuse other people of not letting it go.

Did you see the photo yet? Look at his eyes in it and tell me he's straight.

[Shady]

It's important to talk about something in order to accuse other people of not letting it go.Did you see the photo yet? Look at his eyes in it and tell me he's straight.

Yeah, looked like he'd been drinking. But it's hard to tell from a picture. Kind of impossible.

[Black Dog]

Why should I bother?

Uh, to support your argument?

You won't accept it anyway. Goes against your catechism.

And it has nothing to do with you making s**t up, eh?

This is pointless. Like arguing with a Jehovah Witness.

Funny, given your decidedly faith-based belief in Rob Ford.

Looks like I need to start an 'ignore' list again.

This is one of the most epic bail outs I've ever seen.

[Wild Bill]

Yeah, looked like he'd been drinking. But it's hard to tell from a picture. Kind of impossible.

I'm still not convinced it's him! It could be but with modern digital techniques, who knows for sure?

There are also very convincing doubles we have all seen for years and years and years. They have been a staple on late night shows. I remember a Bill and Hillary Clinton couple that could have been clones of the real people!

I could see some Ryerson students, out to save the world by being a smartass, finding someone who looks very much like Ford and putting out the effort and money for a great makeup job. Anyone who has watched Saturday Night Live these past few decades has seen this many times and the results can be amazingly accurate.

They make a phony video clip and start their hoax with some reporters. They choose the Toronto Star because it's much easier to pull a scam when your mark WANTS to believe you!

Then the situation gets out of hand. Things blow up to be a far bigger deal than they thought. People are actually coming up with what they had thought was a ridiculously high price, that no one would ever actually fork over. They start to panic.

Next thing you know, the video and the so-called drug lords disappear, nowhere to be found.

Possible? Certainly! Probable? We will likely never know. No one would be looking for these guys, if my theory is true. Most players want to crucify Ford, not deal with hoaxers and probable embarrassment to themselves.

Still, I think my scenario has a bit of Occam's Razor to it. Maybe some day it will all come out and we will know.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Wild Bill

[Wild Bill]

Funny, given your decidedly faith-based belief in Rob Ford.

.

"Faith-based belief in Rob Ford"?

How about YOU research ALL my posts and show where I have ever even CARED if Rob Ford is guilty? He IS the mayor of a foreign city, as far as I'm concerned.

I just don't respect witchhunts, no matter who was involved. I would even defend YOU!

In such a situation, I am not at all confident that you would return the favour. I don't come across as left wing enough for some folk's standards. Therefore I am not entitled to the same rights.

While you are admiring my "epic bail", I am sitting here wondering if some people actually have any sense of reading COMPREHENSION at all...