Religion May Not Survive The Internet

[Mighty AC]

This is an interesting article. The author contends that "traditional religion" requires a "closed information system" in order to thrive. She says "Religions have spent eons honing defenses that keep outside information away from insiders" and the internet is making it difficult for leaders to control the world view of their flocks.

I agree with the author's premise, the internet should lead to a decline in traditional religious belief. Though it may aid in the spread of other hoaxes.

Filter bubbles can certainly shield us from balanced or true information, but that is more of an adult issue. The internet is unlikely to lead the old faithful astray, as they tend to only seek information that confirms their deeply held beliefs. However, children are now accessing information at a very young age and they are not yet cemented in their ways. In my opinion, this will undermine religious indoctrination efforts.

http://www.salon.com...e_the_internet/

[Shady]

I'm not sure. The hoax known as Climate Change seems to be thriving.

[Michael Hardner]

I'm not sure. The hoax known as Climate Change seems to be thriving.

Well, the factual part is doing well - the fact that temperatures are increasing. That lends credence to the idea in the OP.

The political movement isn't doing as well because that is tribal.

[Guest Manny]

www.bible.com

[GostHacked]

It's now even tough for the government to disseminate a certain viewpoint with impunity and without question. We no longer need to rely on the traditional outlets for our news and many other things.

The Internet is the best tool they never should have created because it's continually marginalizing the traditional means of how information is put out, because now we get to question everything and talk a lot about it, this kind of thing makes them nervous as they no longer have that monopoly. It's part of the reason you see governments around the world cracking down on how the Internet is used (China being the best example of this). So as much as the internet is open, we are seeing a effort to block certain information from getting out.

It's going to change many people's worldviews the more they use the Internet to find out the citizens of another country (even the so called enemies) are pretty much like the rest of us. Normal everyday people who just want a better life for themselves.

[Pliny]

Religion or establishments of religion?

[betsy]

Other religion may not survive.....but I can pretty much say that the Christian religion will endure. If the Bible endured thousands of years, to come out still strong in the present times....what's there to worry about? Of course it's moot to tell you guys that God will see to it.

Ironically, the advancing technology will assure that. The survival of the Christian faith, that is.

The internet actually helps the Christian faith. Now, there is a venue to be heard. Sources are available to counter false claims! Whereas before, our unprepared Christian youths are easily stumped when inundated by attacks on our beliefs, now Apologetics is easily available. Only a few clicks away.

And we can watch videos. Like Expelled! And debates! And we can seek answers from sites by Christian Apologists like William Lane Craig! Without the internet, I wouldn't have known how Dawkins ran away from Craig! I probably wouldn't know about Bible Archeology....and see all these findings throughout history. I've learned a lot from the internet over the years! We don't need to rely on biased mainstream media alone....

We're shut out from schools and other places......but with the internet, we have an even playing field.

GLOBAL! We can reach farther....we can reach those that we couldn't before. Soon everyone will be reached. The Great Commission to preach the Truth to everyone in the world can be completed.

I suppose you think God has nothing to do with the internet.

Furthermore, if you hadn't noticed, Hollywood's been churning up faith-based movies, that now - contrary to a few years ago - portray the Christian religion in a positive light. That means there's an appetite for it. Tho I hate to use Hollywood as one of the telling signs - it is.

Also, with helplessness from disasters of every kinds - not to mention the state of society - out of desperation, people will tend to drift back to God.

Edited January 22, 2013 by betsy

[betsy]

Actually, the internet may hurt Atheism.

All you have to do is go to Atheist sites - especially forums. Most of them have the tendency to be obnoxiously rude. Someone who's sincerely seeking truth will be more likely to find the attitudes and mindsets of these types of atheists to be quite revealing. They wear on their sleeves all they have to offer. And by the looks of it, not that much. I'm talking about the genuine truth-seekers.

If you're genuinely confused and seeking the truth - which would you prefer? The mindless, irrational statements given through insults and name-calls or.....REASON?

As an example, remember the conversion that happened a few years ago (of all places!) right on Dawkin's forum site!

Converted by a lone Christian Pastor who entered the lion's den - answering with truth and reason, while the rest of the pack only had insults for arguments! The truth-seeker (who was a Dawkins fan), ended up becoming a Christian. Who knows how many more silently converted to Christianity after visiting atheist sites!

Edited January 22, 2013 by betsy

[Mighty AC]

Like I said, I don't think the internet will convert people already set in their ways. Filter bubbles allow us to effectively see what we want to see online. Purposely biased news channels like Fox and MSNBC help in that regard as well. Deprogramming is a long and slow process. However, easily available online information will make the indoctrination process much harder.

I'm sure there are many that convert from one belief system to another however, there is an accelerating trend towards people claiming to have "no belief". Americans increasingly report no religious affiliation: study

[Guest Manny]

Like I said, I don't think the internet will convert people already set in their ways. Filter bubbles allow us to effectively see what we want to see online. Purposely biased news channels like Fox and MSNBC help in that regard as well. Deprogramming is a long and slow process. However, easily available online information will make the indoctrination process much harder.

Well betsy just demonstrated a case where that did exactly happen. So what you think is incorrect.

I'm sure there are many that convert from one belief system to another however, there is an accelerating trend towards people claiming to have "no belief". Americans increasingly report no religious affiliation: study

Does reporting no religious affiliation mean the same thing as having "no belief"?

I have no affiliation. I wouldn't say, I have no belief. Sounds like you're wrong again

[Mighty AC]

Does reporting no religious affiliation mean the same thing as having "no belief"?

I have no affiliation. I wouldn't say, I have no belief. Sounds like you're wrong again

Study after study is showing an increase in those that claim to be atheist, agnostic and none. Those increases are primarily coming in younger demographics. Here is more on the study quoted in the Reuters article I posted if you like. http://www.pewforum....n-the-rise.aspx

Well betsy just demonstrated a case where that did exactly happen. So what you think is incorrect.

Did you really just lend your support to an anecdotal example? Wow. I think you already understand the pointlessness of your remark; but, if you need clarification maybe I can find a crayon drawing or a sock puppet sketch that will help.

[betsy]

Like I said, I don't think the internet will convert people already set in their ways. Filter bubbles allow us to effectively see what we want to see online. Purposely biased news channels like Fox and MSNBC help in that regard as well. Deprogramming is a long and slow process. However, easily available online information will make the indoctrination process much harder.

I'm sure there are many that convert from one belief system to another however, there is an accelerating trend towards people claiming to have "no belief". Americans increasingly report no religious affiliation: study

Just to be clear, we do not have to convert people.

All we need to do is spread the Word.....can the internet do that?

Once seekers of truth hear the truth, and are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, God will do the rest.

Edited January 22, 2013 by betsy

[betsy]

Like I said, I don't think the internet will convert people already set in their ways. Filter bubbles allow us to effectively see what we want to see online. Purposely biased news channels like Fox and MSNBC help in that regard as well. Deprogramming is a long and slow process.

"Filter Bubbles" works for all! No religious affiliations required. Even non-believers see what they want to see online.

However, easily available online information will make the indoctrination process much harder.

You kidding me?

Like I said....we're talking serious TRUTH-SEEKERS. If someone struggling with spirituality wants to have information before he makes an important decision....what better way than the internet to see all the pro and con? He can peruse atheist/evolutionists sites, and religious sites! For all you know he could also go through forums.

We've got someone who claims to be agnostic or atheist hanging out in our Christian forum - he's the only one there as far as I can tell - and he's not obnoxious. He's been throwing his evolutionist arguments (the usual stuff I've already seen here)....and he's been graciously rebutted. He's ceased giving any arguments about evolution, and have not argued against our belief....yet he's still around participating in our discussion. Why is that? I could almost see him eventually converting.

I'm sure there are many that convert from one belief system to another however, there is an accelerating trend towards people claiming to have "no belief". Americans increasingly report no religious affiliation: study

You said it. TREND. Well I'm not talking about trend-seekers or trend-followers. The trend could easily go back to religion - extremism, at that! If the current situation in the world becomes worse, the economy tumbling down, heinous crimes that could only be described as "evil," and throw in a lot of natural disasters....you'd see a lot of these trend-followers running back to the church!

Whether we like it or not, the need to believe in God is hard-wired in humans...and that will kick in at desperate times.

Anyway, I'm talking about someone who seriously seeks information.

Edited January 22, 2013 by betsy

[betsy]

Speaking of Christian forum....that's another thing too! In our forum we've got all kinds of Christians from different denominations! We can all be together to discuss! How can we possibly do that without the internet?

The internet enables us all Christians to have a fellowship among each other - as one in Christ - as it should be!

I see the internet as just another tool of God!

Edited January 22, 2013 by betsy

[Mighty AC]

Once seekers of truth hear the truth, and are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, God will do the rest.

...

"Filter Bubbles" works for all! No religious affiliations required. Even non-believers see what they want to see online.

The internet is a great tool for spreading information of all kinds, and most of us try to stick with information sources we agree with. However, the young tend to be more open minded.

Traditional religion has a credibility problem and youth are now being exposed to this before the indoctrination process can be cemented. 24/7 access to the internet, through the myriad of devices kids now have is planting seeds of religious doubt before they fully mourn the loss of santa, the easter bunny and the tooth fairy.

You may think that your god will bring in followers, but the stats suggest otherwise. It seems he is asleep at the wheel; so, religious leaders are now running expensive ad campaigns in an attempt to retain market share.

In addition, critical thinking skills are now a priority of the education system. This doesn't bode well for any purveyor of BS. In fact, the Texas branch of the Republican party actually wants to ban the teaching of critical thinking skills. They claim it counteracts efforts to instill traditional values. I find it funny that they admit that "traditional" values don't hold up to scrutiny.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Mighty AC

[betsy]

Study after study is showing an increase in those that claim to be atheist, agnostic and none. Those increases are primarily coming in younger demographics. Here is more on the study quoted in the Reuters article I posted if you like. http://www.pewforum....n-the-rise.aspx

Well, your article also said this:

Fifty-eight percent of Americans still say religion is very important in their lives, far exceeding the value given to religion by people in Britain, France, Germany or Spain, Pew said.

The survey by the Pew Research Center's Forum on Religion & Public Life also found that many of the country's 46 million adults who don't claim a religion remain religious and spiritual in some way even though most are not seeking a denomination.

I wouldn't solely blame the internet for that! The abuses made by some priests - scandals after scandals from the past to the present - probably did a lot of that! Some not only turned away from the church....but also from God.

The liberal mindset that bucks at moral authority, or what is seen as patriarchal authority (if you're a feminist supporter)...those too can have an influence. Some simply don't want rules. They want a religion that they can customize....so some don't want to be identified with certain denominations.

And we also have the influence of the Secular society that's bent on removing religion that it becomes nothing more than a hobby.

Did you really just lend your support to an anecdotal example? Wow. I think you already understand the pointlessness of your remark; but, if you need clarification maybe I can find a crayon drawing or a sock puppet sketch that will help.

But it's an anecdotal example that's quite ironic, don't you think so? Getting converted to Christianity from the forum site by the great guru of atheists - DAWKINS!

I posted that somewhere in Videos, Debates etc..,

[betsy]

The internet is a great tool for spreading information of all kinds, and most of us try to stick with information sources we agree with. However, the young tend to be more open minded.

That's a ridiculous claim, therefore I want you to back it up with a cite.

Those with open minds will not just stick to sources they agree with! Especially when it comes to contentious issues! They'll find the whole thing boring!!!!

Serious truth-seekers will not just be content to learn and stick with one side. What, you think he's like a fly that'll get stuck to the first fly-paper he comes to??

[betsy]

The internet is a great tool for spreading information of all kinds, and most of us try to stick with information sources we agree with. However, the young tend to be more open minded.

Traditional religion has a credibility problem and youth are now being exposed to this before the indoctrination process can be cemented. 24/7 access to the internet, through the myriad of devices kids now have is planting seeds of religious doubt before they fully mourn the loss of santa, the easter bunny and the tooth fairy.

Well...we're not talking about most youths. Anyway, how many youths were really serious about religion. Whether you're indoctrinated or not!

I was not serious as a youngster. I didn't really pay attention - just going through the motion and only superficially understood it.

There are some, mind you, who are serious with religion. We have a young lad in church - being groomed - who makes me think of the Biblical, Timothy.

Our Christian youths have resources now from Apologetics sites - thanks to the internet - that can help them deal with questions that confuses them....or have answers to attacks about their faith. The internet helps them defend, and keep the faith strong.

It's also great for someone who finds himself seeking the meaning of life....or faith....or God.

You may think that your god will bring in followers, but the stats suggest otherwise. It seems he is asleep at the wheel; so, religious leaders are now running expensive ad campaigns in an attempt to retain market share.

In addition, critical thinking skills are now a priority of the education system. This doesn't bode well for any purveyor of BS. In fact, the Texas branch of the Republican party actually wants to ban the teaching of critical thinking skills. They claim it counteracts efforts to instill traditional values. I find it funny that they admit that "traditional" values don't hold up to scrutiny.

The only BS right now is the BS claims you make above. So you want to stick to sources you agree with, huh?

Now I understand why your religious discussion are so out to lunch.

Edited January 22, 2013 by betsy

[GostHacked]

Who's my favorite troll?? BETSY is my favorite troll!.

[Mighty AC]

That's a ridiculous claim, therefore I want you to back it up with a cite.

Those with open minds will not just stick to sources they agree with! Especially when it comes to contentious issues! They'll find the whole thing boring!!!!

Serious truth-seekers will not just be content to learn and stick with one side. What, you think he's like a fly that'll get stuck to the first fly-paper he comes to??

So you feel that you're an open-minded truth seeker? Really?

Anyway, here is a source that suggests that we are less open as we age.

Psychologists have long identified openness to new experiences as one of the “Big Five” personality traits, which also include extroversion, agreeableness, conscientiousness and neuroticism. Considerable disagreement exists about how much these personality traits change after age 30, but most research suggests that openness declines in adulthood.

“Clear age trends are observable,” says psychologist Peter Borkenau of Martin Luther University Halle-Wittenberg in Germany. “People tend to become more reliable and agreeable with age, but their openness to novelty drops at the same time.”

http://pragmasynesi....nge-is-so-hard/

[betsy]

So you feel that you're an open-minded truth seeker? Really?

Anyway, here is a source that suggests that we are less open as we age.

http://pragmasynesi....nge-is-so-hard/

First of all, the title of your article sums up what it's talking about:

Set in Our Ways: Why Change Is So Hard

Of course as we get older we get set in our ways....we become cranky old coots when somebody makes you change your ways.

You said....

Mighty AC

most of us try to stick with information sources we agree with.

Your article speaks of "declining openness." It's not referring to being close-minded. Big difference.

Having said that, as far as open-mindedness is concerned you're probably less open-minded because if you're intellectual at all - after 50 years of mulling over a topic and considering it with all the available information - you have now decided on a certain point of view.

So why would you be open-minded about a twenty year old who's probably read two unverified internet information about it?

Am I gonna cast aside my open-mindedness on the basis of a twenty year old who's just starting out and barely understanding the topic?

Of course you'd still be open to another 60 year old's opinion if he'd gone to the same trouble of understanding the same topic.

It doesn't have to be a twenty year old. Why would one suffer someone ignorant about a subject, even if he's Richard Dawkins?

Edited January 22, 2013 by betsy

[Guest Manny]

Study after study is showing an increase in those that claim to be atheist, agnostic and none. Those increases are primarily coming in younger demographics. Here is more on the study quoted in the Reuters article I posted if you like. http://www.pewforum....n-the-rise.aspx

Did you really just lend your support to an anecdotal example? Wow. I think you already understand the pointlessness of your remark; but, if you need clarification maybe I can find a crayon drawing or a sock puppet sketch that will help.

what another study? Sorry, you failed the first round. The study says "No affiliation" and you take it to mean, no religion. I guess its time for you to put your crayons away, and man up a little.

[Mighty AC]

Your article speaks of "declining openness." It's not referring to being close-minded. Big difference.

You don't think most people prefer news and commentary that tends to support their beliefs? Okay, but I believe you're wrong. In your opinion, what is behind the accelerating drop in religious affiliation?

[Mighty AC]

what another study? Sorry, you failed the first round. The study says "No affiliation" and you take it to mean, no religion. I guess its time for you to put your crayons away, and man up a little.

Same study, just a direct post to it. The authors of the study actually claim the increase in those with "no affiliation" have "no religion". The study also shows that 88% of those with "no affiliation" are not looking for a religion and there is an accelerating increase in those claiming to be atheist and agnostic. Not really the numbers traditional religions want to see.

[GostHacked]

Those with open minds will not just stick to sources they agree with!

Yes we know you are closed minded, hence the reason the Bible is your go to document of choice. Because you agree with it.

BYE BYE !!!!