US dead last in health care

[waldo]

Why did you attack the integrity of the Maclean's cover and report ?

no - the challenge was to you playing up a facet of the study, one that didn't speak to the overall study ranking and the cherry-picking of select categories. Your's wasn't an intent to present a factual accounting... you didn't highlight the U.S. was "dead last" in 5 sub-categories... you didn't highlight the U.S. was "dead last" in overall ranking. No, to you it was simply another avenue to splash a headline, one that suits your false narrative. That's you being... intellectually dishonest! Par for the/your course.

False on both counts, as you attempt to back pedal out of your self made trap. I have consistently cited other nations as having better systems for universal access and care (e.g. France). Nobody would choose Canada's approach based on current performance metrics.

no - your imagination doesn't count! You have not ever... ever... offered any commentary that has you acknowledging faults/failures within your 'American health disadvantaged' system. Prove me wrong.

[waldo]

Oh Boy ! There it is....the dreaded "Americanization" of healthcare, even as Canadians are sent to the U.S. for care by the provinces. And you wonder why we laugh ?

regardless of the minuscule number of Canadians utilizing the American system, the only laughing is at your expense. Do you have any numbers yet? You know, something to offer perspective as compared to the hundreds of thousands of Americans that seek healthcare outside your country, due to the faults/failures of your system? Do you have those numbers yet? Do you have anything to update and counter the number percentages I've provided? No? What are waiting for? Is there a problem?

[bush_cheney2004]

regardless of the minuscule number of Canadians utilizing the American system, the only laughing is at your expense.

....Do you have anything to update and counter the number percentages I've provided? No? What are waiting for? Is there a problem?

No, I am too busy laughing about the "Americanization" of Canadian healthcare.....the Americanization of neonatal care....the Americanization of bariatric surgery....the Americanization of cancer treatment....the Americanization of diagnostic imaging....the Americanization of residential treatment...the Americanization of pharmaceuticals....the Americanization of reproductive services (abortions)....the Americanization of Canadian trained doctors.....the Americanization of provider networks.....the Americanization of solutions for a failing system:

A Metroland Special Report on Cross Border Care shows:

• A 450 per cent increase in OHIP approvals for out-of-country care since the beginning of this decade, a period of explosive growth in new technologies and therapies not covered or available here. The province agreed to fund 2,110 procedures or treatments in 2001, and 11,775 last year.

• Patient demand has created a new breed of health-system navigators, known as medical brokers, who find U.S. options for the growing number of Ontario patients who elect to pay for medical services south of the border themselves.

Medical brokers negotiate discount rates with U.S. centres to get Ontarians faster diagnostics, second opinions and surgery.

Brokers say that for every patient sent south by the Ontario government, there may be up to 10 others who go — and pay — on their own.

• Ontario’s spending on out-of-Canada medical services has tripled in the last five years. Payments in 2010 will balloon to $164.3 million, from $56.3 million in 2005. The province said in last month’s economic forecast it needs to increase health spending by $700 million to cover “higher than anticipated” OHIP costs, including services outside the province.

While out-of-country spending is a small part of the $11 billion OHIP pays for all patient services a year, the increase is significant, Ontario’s health minister says.

“Are we looking at ways to reduce out-of-country? Absolutely yes,” said Deb Matthews, who became health minister last month.

Matthews says her ministry is taking steps to improve services and access across Ontario

so fewer patients will need to go to the U.S.

At the same time, though, the ministry continues to negotiate preferred rates for Ontario patient visits to U.S. health centres, the Metroland investigation shows.

• Ontario has become a major contractor — a bulk buyer — of American health services this year.

Since spring, the ministry has entered into funding contracts with U.S. hospitals, imaging clinics and residential treatment centres.

It has these “preferred provider” contracts in place with about 40 American medical providers now — and is accepting solicitations from others. Contracts cover diagnostics, cancer care, bariatrics and adolescent behavioural disorders. The ministry says the agreements ensure “more immediate services for patients whose health is at risk.”

It has declined to release details of any of the agreements.

•

The province does not track the number of Ontarians who cross the border for care on their own

, never seeking government pre-approval or reimbursement.

But major U.S. medical centres contacted by Metroland — including Detroit’s Henry Ford Health System and the Mayo Clinic — say both government-funded and private-pay patient lists are growing.

The Mayo Clinic, which sees about 600 Ontario patients a year, says top reasons include wait times and diagnostic evaluations “when they’ve exhausted options in Canada,”

says Mariana Iglesias of the Minnesota-based clinic.

•

Ontario continues to struggle with wait times

. This month, almost 140,000 people are on wait lists just for CT scans and MRIs.

•

Wait-time insurance policies have emerged as the industry caught on to public angst

. While no industry figures exist to indicate the level of consumer take-up of the coverage, plans are available to reimburse costs of private treatment when policyholders are forced to wait more than 45 days.

BY THE NUMBERS

Out-of-country applications pre-approved by OHIP

2008-09: 11,775

2007-08: 8,885

2006-07: 7,021

2005-06: 5,549

2004-05: 4,533

2001-02: 2,110

OHIP Spending on Out-of-country procedures

09-10 — $164.3 million (estimate)

08-09 — $127.9

07-08 — $101.4

06-07 — $70.1

05-06 — $56.3

[bush_cheney2004]

OMG ! Who knew ? Not only does Canada have excessive wait times, there is now a legal product called "Medical Access Insurance". So you can buy private "wait list" insurance but not private medical insurance ???? Wow !!!!!!!

Decreasing Wait List Times for Faster Access to Medical Diagnosis and Treatments

Canada is in the midst of a medical access crisis.

With over 815,000 people on a wait list for diagnosis and medical treatment, our health system has Canadians without supplemental health insurance

waiting up to a year to see a specialist

,

get an M

RI or CT scan and to get surgery.

Waiting for medical care is well known to cause stress, loss of income and physical deconditioning. However, for those who do get prompt medical attention (within 21 days), studies have shown that the recovery rate is up to 75% faster.

One solution to the problem of long Canadian wait lists is called Medical Access Insurance (MAI)

. MAI is known as Canada's first "Wait List" health insurance. With Medical Access Insurance, there is no wait list and policy holders are being booked in for medical services with

minimal wait times

, much quicker than other Canadians.

http://insurance.can...alth-insurance/

Edited January 29, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

No, I am too busy laughing about the "Americanization" of Canadian healthcare.....the Americanization of neonatal care....the Americanization of bariatric surgery....the Americanization of cancer treatment....the Americanization of diagnostic imaging....the Americanization of residential treatment...the Americanization of pharmaceuticals....the Americanization of reproductive services (abortions)....the Americanization of Canadian trained doctors.....the Americanization of provider networks.....the Americanization of solutions for a failing system:

A Metroland Special Report on Cross Border Care shows:

The province agreed to fund 2,110 procedures or treatments in 2001, and 11,775 last year.

BY THE NUMBERS

Out-of-country applications pre-approved by OHIP

2008-09: 11,775

2007-08: 8,885

2006-07: 7,021

2005-06: 5,549

2004-05: 4,533

2001-02: 2,110

I'm too busy laughing at your failed effort... and you were soooooo pumped by it... with all your bold-highlighted and colour emphasized text... with the effort you went to actually manually transpose the numbers from the articles graphic! I guess you also don't realize the somewhat community 'newspaper' nature of your source publication; i.e., it's hardly mainstream journalism. In any case, those/your numbers aren't accurate as you're presuming to use them... they might reflect on applications; they most certainly don't present the actual number of approvals. More pointedly, if your numbers are actually applications, given the dates shown, they reflect upon the past period where applications didn't need to come directly from medical specialists.

accurate real numbers (from the Ontario Health Ministry) for OHIP approved/covered Out Of Country applications:

2011-12: 176* (1st. quarter)

2010-11: 1,076

2009-10: 3,161

2008-09: 3,177

2007-08: 2,463

like I said, "mice-nuts" numbers representing health ministries approving Canadians for healthcare in the U.S.... Ontario numbers - you know, the most populated province in Canada with more than 40% of the country's population. "Mice-nuts", hey?... particularly in relation to this handy graphic showing U.S. numbers/projections of Americans 'forced' to seek healthcare outside the U.S.. Wouldn't you say, hey?

keep trying, lil' buddy!

Edited January 30, 2013 by waldo

[bush_cheney2004]

xxx

yyy

[waldo]

yyy

surely... if you have the time to reply with this gem, you have the cycles to reply to MLW member, 'Pliny's' earlier post... you seem to have missed it/conveniently ignored Pliny's post??? I've taken the liberty of copying it (along with my own reply to it).

have a go at Pliny's post, hey?

Obamacare is designed to whittle away at your "system" until you can beat the Canadian system for mediocrity.

In my view, it doesn't bode well for America, good luck with it my friend.

whittle away??? Oh... you mean, 'whittle away' at the American Gaps in Health Care Coverage? He continues to ignore previous comments concerning the realities of universality on healthcare... I'm sure he won't bite at your comment either - clearly, it doesn't fit his false narrative!

[bush_cheney2004]

I think we can agree that Canada has a much better system for Medical Access Insurance. It is a brilliant way to circumvent existing CHA and provincial laws. I had no idea such products existed in Canada.....one can learn so many things here at MLW.

MAI Plus

complements your current provincial health care plan.

When the health care system cannot yield the treatment you require in a timely manner,

medical access insurance will. MAI Plus is added coverage, granting you rapid access to the Canadian health care services you need.

• Treatment provided at clinics in Canada, where services are available,
  and at medical clinics in the United States if necessary.
  
• Pre and post surgery specialist consultations.
  
• Diagnosis, including MRI and CT scans.
  
• Surgery for over 135 covered conditions and more than 500 procedures.
  

http://www.acurehealth.com/insurance-products/medical-access-insurance-plus.php

[guyser]

Seems like pretty shady coverage , pre-existing conditions are excluded up to past 24 months in force, not entirely a surprise of course since people with problems would only swamp them , but there does not seem to be any guarantees of delivery.

And frankly , this is too expensive for the return. But to each their own.

Here is a quote.....

Summary of Payment Options Monthly Yearly Base premium $70.58 $846.96 Provincial Tax $0.00 $0.00 Total Periodic Payment $70.58 $846.96

Preferred payment schedule: Monthly PaymentsYearly Payments

[waldo]

OMG ! Who knew ? Not only does Canada have excessive wait times, there is now a legal product called "Medical Access Insurance". So you can buy private "wait list" insurance but not private medical insurance ???? Wow !!!!!!!

a 7 exclamation point Wow... wow.

who knew? Certainly not you.... in all your pomposity. I already schooled you on the distinctions associated with private medical clinics offering general physicians care... you know, where private billing must align with mandated public fee structures - where these private clinics charge additional membership and yearly fees over and above any service billing they apply back to respective provincial health administrations. You remember that schooling, right?

the insurance you're describing, just one of many examples, reflects upon services beyond what these private general physician care clinics offer (like, for example, surgical procedures). As I'm aware, this type of insurance has been around since ~2000... or so. But let's make sure to fully qualify it's typical application given your rabid barking concerning 'Canadians utilizing U.S. healthcare'. From your own supplied link reference: "Most services and procedures can be performed without leaving your province. However, in the case that services are not available in your area, in Canada, or must be performed elsewhere for regulatory reasons, the policy will pay for travel expenses."

you say one "can't" buy private insurance... or that's now, "new, legal". Clearly, you don't know what you're talking about - as if that wasn't already a conclusive understanding. Apparently, in your haste to deflect/ignore, you didn't bother to actually read one of my earlier posts that emphasized (in words/and graphically) a by-country comparative cost of health care, one that clearly delineated private versus public spending. I even took the trouble of pointing out to you the fact your U.S. spending on public was almost as much as Canada's combined (public/private)... I guess this flew right on by you, hey? Of course, in all your blustering bravado, you don't even understand the public-private distinction within Canada (or that degrees of private exist depending on province; that degrees of remuneration (if any) depend on province). You haven't a bloody clue as to what actually makes up the Canadian system, public or private... of course, that certainly didn't stop your clown show, did it?

in fact, one of my earlier posts addressed the universality of healthcare within OECD countries... I highlighted, per the OECD definition and description, that the U.S., Mexico and Turkey were the only OECD countries that didn't have healthcare systems judged as offering universal coverage... and that within the OECD countries judged to offer universal access healthcare, there were degrees of "universality". In that regard, per the latest OECD statistics I can find, public spending in Canada accounted for ~70% of all health care spending... in the U.S. public spending accounts for ~45% of all health care spending. Of course, I'm taken aim directly at the most limited service available to a significant portion of your country's public component (the 70 million low(er) income Americans with Medicaid coverage)... just another thing you've chosen to ignore.

now go answer MLW member, 'Pliny's' post... you know, address the coming impact of ObamaCare (even as limited as the 'first wave' will be) on your health care 'system'. After all... universality membership has it's privileges... and consequences, right?

[waldo]

I think we can agree...

oh my! Not another one of your back-peddling "we agree" summations!

it's always amusing that when you're called out on your clown-show, when you're proven wrong, you back-peddle with a "we agree" summation!

[bush_cheney2004]

oh my! Not another one of your back-peddling "we agree" summations![/size]

Is is customary in international conflict resolution to identify areas of agreement and common interest. Having discovered the burgeoning market in Canada for "wait list" Medical Access Insurance (MAI), we should be able to agree that such a product exists primarily because of consumer demand, despite the promises (and shortcomings) of provincial health care. Canadians deserve market based solutions that are not constrained by collectivist mediocrity.

In this spirit, I look forward to identifying additional areas of shared interest, including the American healthcare provider services described in earlier posts.

[BubberMiley]

Seeing that only one small company is offering this service and there is no evidence it is being widely purchased, I am suspecting you don't know what the word "burgeoning" means.

[waldo]

Seeing that only one small company is offering this service and there is no evidence it is being widely purchased, I am suspecting you don't know what the word "burgeoning" means.

whaaa! Well... we know the extreme liberties he took with the minuscule numbers of Canadians utilizing the U.S. healthcare system (through formal provincial healthcare approvals) - less than a thousand a year now in Ontario!

just how big is a Bush_Cheney "burgeon", anyways?

[bush_cheney2004]

Seeing that only one small company is offering this service and there is no evidence it is being widely purchased, I am suspecting you don't know what the word "burgeoning" means.

“Access to a waitlist is not Access to healthcare”

-Chief Justice Beverly McLauchlin

OTTAWA — A prominent hospital chief says

it is time Canadians stop treating medicare as a religion

and gained the right to buy private health insurance.

Michel Bilodeau, who has worked at virtually every major hospital in Ottawa over nearly four decades, argues provincial governments should take lessons from the health systems of France, Germany and Sweden and shift to a consumer-driven culture that gives patients more choice. That includes allowing patients to purchase private health insurance to cover treatments the government ordinarily covers as a means of easing the strain on long waiting lists in the public system.

http://news.national...executive-says/

Edited January 30, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

answer MLW member, 'Pliny's' post!!!!!!!! (an 8 exclamation point request)

[punked]

“Access to a waitlist is not Access to healthcare”

-Chief Justice Beverly McLauchlin

OTTAWA — A prominent hospital chief says

it is time Canadians stop treating medicare as a religion

and gained the right to buy private health insurance.

Michel Bilodeau, who has worked at virtually every major hospital in Ottawa over nearly four decades, argues provincial governments should take lessons from the health systems of France, Germany and Sweden and shift to a consumer-driven culture that gives patients more choice. That includes allowing patients to purchase private health insurance to cover treatments the government ordinarily covers as a means of easing the strain on long waiting lists in the public system.

http://news.national...executive-says/

We get it you hate lines. I hate poor people dying from preventable illness.............but you know lines to just not enough to watch people die so I don't have to wait a week to get some skin cream.

[bush_cheney2004]

answer MLW member, 'Pliny's' post!!!!!!!! (an 8 exclamation point request)

But you didn't say the magic word.

[bush_cheney2004]

We get it you hate lines. I hate poor people dying from preventable illness.............but you know lines to just not enough to watch people die so I don't have to wait a week to get some skin cream.

Apparently, some Canadians "hate lines" too !!

[punked]

Apparently, some Canadians "hate lines" too !!

Not even anything close to a voting majority eh? Otherwise we would have your system, wait there was a voting majority to change your system no to long ago. Looks like Americans don't even like their system.

[bush_cheney2004]

Not even anything close to a voting majority eh? Otherwise we would have your system, wait there was a voting majority to change your system no to long ago. Looks like Americans don't even like their system.

It's not my system, but thanks for confirming that you are, indeed, not an American.

[punked]

It's not my system, but thanks for confirming that you are, indeed, not an American.

I definitely don't get my health care from America good thing citizenship doesn't depend on that.

[bush_cheney2004]

How long are you prepared to wait?

It starts with a visit to your family doctor; you are told you will have to see a Specialist for a proper diagnosis. You wait 6 months for the appointment where you are told you will need an MRI to confirm the diagnosis. Two months later, the Specialist’s office calls to review the MRI results and schedule surgery for 6 months later. Your life has been put on hold for 14 months

http://waitlistinsurance.com/

Edited January 30, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

for something you didn't know existed but a few short number of posts back... you've become quite the authority!

[bush_cheney2004]

for something you didn't know existed but a few short number of posts back... you've become quite the authority!

Thank you...I am a fast learner. I really like this employee productivity angle...helps to explain why Canada is at a "disadvantage":

Why does your company need HealthSure?

HealthSure offers a unique benefit for your valuable employees and rewards your business by reducing absenteeism associated with short or long-term disability claims. Employees will not suffer from unnecessary pain and worry;

they will return to work sooner,

contributing to higher productivity