US dead last in health care

[bush_cheney2004]

Canadian doctors (and other health care professionals) are still leaving for better opportunities and higher pay in the United States.

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=04c4d089-35f5-4427-b78d-dae67df07bec

Edited January 28, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

yes, we know... you quite cavalierly dismiss the OP study findings on the 'American Health Disadvantage' - choosing to categorize your system's negative/reduced comparison results as simply, "life-style choices".

Many are lifestyle choices....and Americans have more choices than Canadians.....ways to live and ways to die.

do tell... do tell. Since you appear to use American's "life-style" choices as a blanket excuse your country's pee-poor comparative health, why continue your charade in (falsely) posturing over the state/quality of your health care 'systems'?

Any "health disadvantage" is certainly not reflected in relative population sizes compared to Canada.

huh! I recall the OP referenced 'American Health Disadvantage' study being quite precise in comparative metrics... in what I reviewed, always comparing countries based on a per/number population size basis. Is this you just pulling another prize from your nether regions? (h/t to MLW member, 'guyser')

Immigrants certainly have chosen the American "disadvantage" over any relative or absolute Canadian "advantage". Why would they do that ?

huh! Just how big is your nether region? Trust in your CIA World Factbook:

COUNTRY COMPARISON :: NET MIGRATION RATE - Migrants per 1000 population

=> Canada: 5.65

=> U.S.: 3.62

[waldo]

And yet Canada has one of the most expensive universal access "systems" in the world, but still ranks low (OECD).

I'm quite taken with this OECD graphic. Not only does it reinforce the overall highly disproportionate U.S. healthcare spending, it provides a most illustrative split of private vs. public spending... why it appears the U.S. spends almost as much on your public systems as Canada does in it's entirety. Oh my! Not another one of your bubbles burst, hey!

[bush_cheney2004]

COUNTRY COMPARISON :: NET MIGRATION RATE - Migrants per 1000 population

=> Canada: 5.65

=> U.S.: 3.62

Another lost penis measuring contest.....the U.S. laughs at Canada's puny immigration numbers. So do the Mexicans. Canada is only 8% of North American population....must be the weather.....LOL !!

Edited to add: The foreign born population in the USA is greater than the entire population of Canada. Just sayin'....

Edited January 28, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

[/size]I'm quite taken with this OECD graphic. Not only does it reinforce the overall highly disproportionate U.S. healthcare spending, it provides a most illustrative split of private vs. public spending... why it appears the U.S. spends almost as much on your public systems as Canada does in it's entirety. Oh my! Not another one of your bubbles burst, hey!

The U.S. spends more and gets more....that would be the excess capacity that Canadians and Canadian provinces take full advantage of.

Spend...baby...spend. Stop being so damn cheap in Canada !

[waldo]

Another lost penis measuring contest.....the U.S. laughs at Canada's puny immigration numbers. So do the Mexicans. Canada is only 8% of North American population....must be the weather.....LOL !!

I appreciate you can't understand comparative metrics... how representative comparisons are actually made. PPP... look it up!

[Canuckistani]

name='guyser' timestamp='1359405705' post='877638'][/size]

the gross number of doctors leaving the country hit

two peaks in the last 35 years: one in the late 1970s, when

we lost between 500 to 600 doctors a year, and another

in the mid-1990s, when we lost around 600 to 700 a year.

When assessing the brain drain, it’s important to consider

not only the number of doctors who are leaving, but also the

number returning to Canada. This number has been holding

fairly steady since 1980, with around 250 to 350 returning

per year. Thus, our net loss of physicians is fairly small

— since 1980, our annual net loss has never been more than

one percent (and averages closer to one quarter of a percent)

of all practising physicians.ix, x

In recent years, not only has the brain drain trend slowed,

it has actually reversed. In 2004, there was a net brain gain

of 85 doctors. Although this gain has decreased as of late

— a net gain of 61 doctors in 2005 and 31 in 2006ix, x — the

data still counter popular perceptions that Canadian doctors

are leaving in droves.

The data also disprove claims that the brain drain is

responsible for Canada’s doctor shortage. In 2006, there

were 62,307 active physicians in Canada — the highest

number ever, largely attributable to a more than five percent

increase in Canadian-trained physicians over the last five

years.ix The 2006 data also show a five percent increase in

physicians between 2002 and 2006, which is just over parity

with population growth over the same time.ix

http://www.cfhi-fcas...DF/myth29_e.pdf

Just to make this legible. Use the post plain text function - it will help in a case like this.

[waldo]

The U.S. spends more and gets more....

yes, you're finally getting it! The U.S. does spend more... the most... and it does get more - per the OP referenced study, the U.S. gets more of a comparative health disadvantage relative to other high-income countries.

[bush_cheney2004]

I appreciate you can't understand comparative metrics... how representative comparisons are actually made. PPP... look it up!

For many emigres, Canada is just a stepping stone to their real goal...the US of A. Metric that......

[bush_cheney2004]

Just to make this legible. Use the post plain text function - it will help in a case like this.

LOL! It was a lot more fun the other way.....maybe make more Canadians see an eye doctor in Buffalo, Detroit, or Seattle !!

[bush_cheney2004]

yes, you're finally getting it! The U.S. does spend more... the most... and it does get more - per the OP referenced study, the U.S. gets more of a comparative health disadvantage relative to other high-income countries.

And that's just the way some Americans like it.....money talks.....commie care walks.

[waldo]

For many emigres, Canada is just a stepping stone to their real goal...the US of A. Metric that......

no - have another look at that CIA World Factbook link... it factors both immigration and emigration to realize a net migration figure. This, your latest nether region statement, is not supported by the provided link. Metric that.....

[cybercoma]

yes, you're finally getting it! The U.S. does spend more... the most... and it does get more - per the OP referenced study, the U.S. gets more of a comparative health disadvantage relative to other high-income countries.

[bush_cheney2004]

no - have another look at that CIA World Factbook link... it factors both immigration and emigration to realize a net migration figure. This, your latest nether region statement, is not supported by the provided link. Metric that.....

CIA ? You must be joking.....of all the American alphabet soup organizations that you so depend on, this is the last one I would expect given it's role in Iraq, WMD, et al. (I love typing "et al" for folks like you...it is so trendy !)

Edited January 28, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

[guyser]

Canadian doctors (and other health care professionals) are still leaving for better opportunities and higher pay in the United States.

http://www.nationalp...8d-dae67df07bec

Same article same bullshit, but if one can read it proves your 5000 a year was made up.

You dont normally make up numbers do you ?

No brain drain, now a brain grab. People get sick on vacation , get help fast.

Astonishing is nt it?

You want to discuss, fine, but stop throwing the BS out there. Especially when you are called on it and proven wrong. Thats just plain stupidity.

[waldo]

It existed, did anyone say otherwise? Nope.

More return than leave now .

So, this is an admission that 8% was pulled out of the nether regions by you is it? (it should be)

it's just one of his standard ploys... he's done it several times now when called out. When he realizes he's been caught with another nether region grab, he'll simply reference back to "in the past". In any case, although both the U.S. and Canada have physician shortages, the U.S. shortage is most acute with projections calling for significant deficiencies. As it stands the U.S. has a heavy reliance on foreign physicians to support it's physician requirements and health care, as limited and constrained as it is... and the U.S. is heavily engaged in significant foreign country recruitment initiatives, particularly poaching physicians from 3rd world countries! Shame!

February 16, 2011 - The shortage of doctors in the United States - already a problem for millions of Americans who live in areas where it is difficult to get an appointment or access to emergency care, and millions more who suffer long wait times only to have abbreviated visits with their physicians - is almost certainly going to become much worse over the next 10 to 20 years.

Having failed to increase medical school or residency slots significantly in recent years, the U.S. - with a still growing and fast-aging patient population, and now face-to-face with an impending wave of physician retirements - is poised to suffer even more serious physician shortages in the next decade, with estimates ranging from 90,000 to 200,000 fewer doctors than will be needed.

THE CURRENT U.S. SHORTAGE

As of September 2009, at least 80 million Americans lived in areas with a shortage of medical practitioners in at least one field, according the Health Resources and Services Administration. Many of those areas have a lack of access to primary care doctors, dentists, or mental health professionals. In 2006, 30 percent of U.S. counties lacked a single surgeon, according to the American College of Surgeons. Shortages have also been reported in several other fields in recent years, including pediatrics, radiology, and endocrinology.

Additionally, a 2009 survey by the health care consulting firm Merritt Hawkins showed that - even in more than a dozen cities with high physician-to-population ratios - physician appointment wait times had risen considerably, and across a number of specialties, since 2005.

[guyser]

Dr Roy is finding the American healthcare system dead? Is it that funny? Oh ok then......ha ha .....

[bush_cheney2004]

Dr Roy is finding the American healthcare system dead? Is it that funny? Oh ok then......ha ha .....

Yes...if there is an American health care study published by a "Romanow Commission". Would be a fantastic coincidence !

[waldo]

no - have another look at that CIA World Factbook link... it factors both immigration and emigration to realize a net migration figure. This, your latest nether region statement, is not supported by the provided link. Metric that...

CIA ? You must be joking.....of all the American alphabet soup organizations that you so depend on, this is the last one I would expect given it's role in Iraq, WMD, et al. (I love typing "et al" for folks like you...it is so trendy !)

I accept your admission that your immigration claim (U.S. vs. Canada) was false. I also accept your admission that you purposely misused a representative comparison method metric.

[bush_cheney2004]

....You want to discuss, fine, but stop throwing the BS out there. Especially when you are called on it and proven wrong. Thats just plain stupidity.

Don't throw a hissy fit just because I correctly posted that Canada had/has a problem with retaining home grown health care professionals. It is not stupid...it is their choice, something that I advocate instead of government monopolies on health care and insurance products. It is so bad in Canada that your own Supreme Court provided the smack-down that gave birth to all those silly ass wait time web sites.

The Supreme Court of Canada ruled Thursday that the Quebec government cannot prevent people from paying for private insurance for health-care procedures covered under medicare.

In a 4-3 decision, the panel of seven justices said banning private insurance for a list of services ranging from MRI tests to cataract surgery was unconstitutional under the Quebec Charter of Rights,

given that the public system has failed to guarantee patients access to those services in a timely way.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...alth050609.html

Ooops...forgot this nugget:

Lawyers for the federal government argued the court should not interfere with the health-care system, considered "one of Canada's finest achievements and a powerful symbol of the national identity."

Edited January 28, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

I accept your admission that your immigration claim (U.S. vs. Canada) was false. I also accept your admission that you purposely misused a representative comparison method metric.

..and I accept your admission that American organizations provide the foundations for many of your arguments, whether true or false. This is a metaphor for Canadians going to the USA for medical care.

[guyser]

Yes...if there is an American health care study published by a "Romanow Commission". Would be a fantastic coincidence !

Medicare is an American name.

[guyser]

Don't throw a hissy fit just because I correctly posted that Canada had/has a problem with retaining home grown health care professionals.

A hissy fit?

Then quit lying. Hows about that?

We retain plenty.

As has been shown that it is 1% and more come back than go down. Thats called a net gain.

It is not stupid...

No, it is as I was refering to your blatant BS posts as respect this issue and this issue only.

. It is so bad in Canada that your own Supreme Court provided the smack-down that gave birth to all those silly ass wait time web sites.

Yes, we measure wait times. Americans dont have wait times published because they would rather not know. Woo Hoo....celebrate ignorance !

[bush_cheney2004]

A hissy fit?

Then quit lying. Hows about that?

We retain plenty.

Meaning you have and continue to lose some, correct ? Why ?

As has been shown that it is 1% and more come back than go down. Thats called a net gain.

So you are saying it is actually desirable for Canadian healthcare professionals to leave for the U.S. and come back?

No, it is as I was refering to your blatant BS posts as respect this issue and this issue only.

Contrary views are not necessarily stupid, but I am sensitive to your feelings and national pride, that's why I keep at this !

Yes, we measure wait times. Americans dont have wait times published because they would rather not know. Woo Hoo....celebrate ignorance !

"Wait times" are a direct outgrowth of severe rationing and resulting political conflagration in Canada post funding cuts. Instead of timely care, Canadians got a scoreboard for wait times instead. For some procedures, wait times are actually worse !!

Can anybody please tell me....what are you waiting for? Anybody?