Mass shooting

[punked]

Smuggies are like that...they can smell everyone elses foul stink but not their own.

You sound like Mr. Canada. You make no sense and have no point.

[bush_cheney2004]

You sound like Mr. Canada. You make no sense and have no point.

Thank you...this means you have no cogent response. Maybe go back to arguing with your favorite member instead.

[GostHacked]

Thank you...this means you have no cogent response. Maybe go back to arguing with your favorite member instead.

A cogent response can only come after cogent reply.

[punked]

Thank you...this means you have no cogent response. Maybe go back to arguing with your favorite member instead.

I can't respond to nothing. You want to get this topic to one you think you can do better with so your reposes are off topic and nonsense when called out on that you continue to post the same thing. Its like Hacked said we can respond to nonsense.

[bush_cheney2004]

I can't respond to nothing. You want to get this topic to one you think you can do better with so your reposes are off topic and nonsense when called out on that you continue to post the same thing. Its like Hacked said we can respond to nonsense.

This post is incoherent. Please clarify.

[cybercoma]

Stupid stats can be used to show just about anything in contexts like these. Of course if you commit suicide, and have a gun in the house, you are more likely to have committed suicide using a gun. Duh. What about those of us not planning to commit suicide? Why should we care? Another example of how "social science" studies are often just mumbo-jumbo.

Except for the niggling issue of suicide rates being higher where gun regulations are laxer. They're higher because they're more successful and the suicide can be accomplished instantly without much planning or effort. So there's that.

[Guest Derek L]

Except for the niggling issue of suicide rates being higher where gun regulations are laxer. They're higher because they're more successful and the suicide can be accomplished instantly without much planning or effort. So there's that.

Wrong:

http://www.ontario.cmha.ca/fact_sheets.asp?cID=3965

The suicide rate for Canadians, as measured by the WHO, is 15 per 100,000 people.

http://www.health.govt.nz/publication/suicide-facts-deaths-and-intentional-self-harm-hospitalisations-2010

And in New Zealand:

This equates to 11.5 deaths per 100,000 population (age-standardised).

There I go being Conservative again……

[waldo]

Sorry smuggies, looks like Canadians are spreading their gun loving ways around the world, from Algeria to the Philippines. This guy went off in court trying to beat a gun possession rap:

A Canadian man is dead after he opened fire in a courtroom in the Philippines today, killing two people and wounding a prosecutor before he was shot by officers, police said.

The man, identified by authorities in Cebu as 63-year-old John Pope, was in court to face illegal possession of firearms and other charges.

Pope was in court in central Cebu city, where he lived, when he pulled out a gun. He then shot a lawyer, Giovanni Achas, and Dr. Reynold Rafols, who had filed a case against him, reports said.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...an-kills-2.html

Canadians Gone Wild!!!!!

hey now... wait a minute Smuggie:

[Guest Derek L]

To add, the suicide rate in the United States:

http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?page_id=04ea1254-bd31-1fa3-c549d77e6ca6aa37

the suicide rate increased 3.9 percent over 2009 to equal approximately 12.4 suicides per 100,000 people. The rate of suicide has been increasing since 2000. This is the highest rate of suicide in 15 years.

[Wilber]

I don't know that firearms have much do do with suicide rates even though slightly over 50% of US suicides involve firarms. I think other factors are much more influential. On the other hand, Adam Lanza represents only one when it comes suicides. The fact he took 27 others with him isn't reflected in a list of suicides per capita.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Wilber

[Guest Derek L]

I don't know that firearms have much do do with suicide rates even though slightly over 50% of US suicides involve firarms. I think other factors are much more influential. On the other hand, Adam Lanza represents only one when it comes suicides. The fact he took 27 others with him isn't reflected in a list of suicides per capita.

Yet explain New Zealand………..You can purchase actual Assault Rifles, sub and full machine guns (and in many cases, cheaper than the United States), no magazine restrictions and silencers………..And like the United Kingdom, most of their police aren’t armed.

From a gun store in Christchurch:

Chinese and Russian AK-47s:

http://www.guncity.co.nz/7.62x39-xidg28291.html

An Uzi with silencer:

http://www.guncity.co.nz/9mm-israeli-uzi-xidp240441.html

A Colt AR-15 with silencer:

http://www.guncity.co.nz/223-colt-ar15-a2-xidp230788.html

A World War II era Bren Machine gun:

http://www.guncity.co.nz/303-bren-mk2-xidp229469.html

Point being, little tiny Progressive New Zealand doesn’t limit what their citizens can purchase, just requires, like Canada, a firearms licence.

[Wilber]

Perhaps so but New Zealand has fewer than 1/4 of the number of guns per capita compared to the US.

[Guest Derek L]

Perhaps so but New Zealand has fewer than 1/4 of the number of guns per capita compared to the US.

That’s irrelevant……….In New Zealand, one can purchase an actual Assault Rifle, unlike many US States…….The only difference in what I can see between Canada/United States/New Zealand is that Canada and NZ require firearms licences and we both have considerably lower crime rates……….Proof that limiting the types of guns one can purchase doesn’t mater, but who can purchase said guns.

[Wilber]

That’s irrelevant……….In New Zealand, one can purchase an actual Assault Rifle, unlike many US States…….The only difference in what I can see between Canada/United States/New Zealand is that Canada and NZ require firearms licences and we both have considerably lower crime rates……….Proof that limiting the types of guns one can purchase doesn’t mater, but who can purchase said guns.

Of course it isn't. Regardless of their laws, guns are not such an integral part of their society. Different mindsets again.

[Guest American Woman]

Except for the niggling issue of suicide rates being higher where gun regulations are laxer. They're higher because they're more successful and the suicide can be accomplished instantly without much planning or effort. So there's that.

So just imagine what Canada's suicide rates would be if you had as many guns per capita as we do, right? Because our suicide rates aren't higher than yours.

[Guest Derek L]

Of course it isn't. Regardless of their laws, guns are not such an integral part of their society. Different mindsets again.

How’s that? Politically speaking, gun control isn’t a political agenda amongst their three largest parties, as such, unlike say here, they have a consensus on gun ownership…………..People hunt with long guns, and can legally own handguns, scary looking rifles, and actual assault weapons for target shooting and collecting………Wouldn’t that suggest that this society, with the reasonable safeguard of firearms licensing, is a “gun nation”……….

[Wilber]

How’s that? Politically speaking, gun control isn’t a political agenda amongst their three largest parties, as such, unlike say here, they have a consensus on gun ownership…………..People hunt with long guns, and can legally own handguns, scary looking rifles, and actual assault weapons for target shooting and collecting………Wouldn’t that suggest that this society, with the reasonable safeguard of firearms licensing, is a “gun nation”……….

What makes it a gun nation, its laws or its society? Its gun laws may seem quite liberal but its society has 1/4 of the guns per capita vs the US and only 2/3 per capita compared to Canada. It's laws might make it a "gun nation" in your view but its society makes it much less of a "gun nation" than the US and less than Canada.

[Guest Derek L]

What makes it a gun nation, its laws or its society? Its gun laws may seem quite liberal but its society has 1/4 of the guns per capita vs the US and only 2/3 per capita compared to Canada. It's laws might make it a "gun nation" in your view but its society makes it much less of a "gun nation" than the US and less than Canada.

I dunno………When Europeans first colonized the place they brought guns with them……some fought with the indigenous people there………Some of the indigenous people fought with other indigenous people……Their people fought in the World Wars, Korea, Vietnam and the war on terror …The people listen to Western music, watch are movies and TV and play our video games…….some drink and use drugs….. Much like the United States…………..today people can own guns………..I don’t see how rates of gun ownership is a make or break factor on who can own guns and of what type of guns people can purchase………Thus making it (or not) a "gun nation".

As I said, the only difference between the United States and New Zealand is a requirement to have a Government mandated licence…..Which I’m sure you would feel reasonable (As I do)……. If less New Zealanders choose to own guns, so what?

Edited January 22, 2013 by Derek L

[Wilber]

As I said, the only difference between the United States and New Zealand is a requirement to have a Government mandated licence…..Which I’m sure you would feel reasonable (As I do)……. If less New Zealanders choose to own guns, so what?

Yes I am in favour of mandated licences but there are licenses and there are licences. It depends on the requirements.

To me it says that regardless of what their laws may be, gun ownership figures much less in their society than the US and less than Canada. If fewer New Zealanders chose to own guns, that makes them quite different.

[BubberMiley]

So just imagine what Canada's suicide rates would be if you had as many guns per capita as we do, right?

You're right. It would likely be a lot more.

Canada's suicide rates are spiked by the extreme numbers of Aboriginal people who commit suicide.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fniah-spnia/promotion/mental/index-eng.php

[Shady]

You're right. It would likely be a lot more.

Canada's suicide rates are spiked by the extreme numbers of Aboriginal people who commit suicide.

http://www.hc-sc.gc....l/index-eng.php

Still can't be that many. Calling an extreme spike in numbers from a very low population group is a big stretch.

[Guest Derek L]

Yes I am in favour of mandated licences but there are licenses and there are licences. It depends on the requirements.

To me it says that regardless of what their laws may be, gun ownership figures much less in their society than the US and less than Canada. If fewer New Zealanders chose to own guns, that makes them quite different.

But why is that? Such ownership rates could be attributed to something simple as cost…………A Remington deer rifle that’s ~$350 in the United States, is about ~$700 in Canada, well the same rifle in New Zealand is about $1500.………….Clearly our proximity to the gun makers in the United States, versus the distance between the US and NZ, affords Canadian gun owners a better deal, hence said gun owners can afford to purchase more guns…………

Another factor not to discount is population size………New Zealand has a population similar to that of British Columbia, now when compared to Canada this is a stark difference, as such, there are many more Canadians purchasing new guns and then having their wives force them to sell their old guns, thus “flooding the used gun market” with a large variety of used guns……………The NZ gun store I linked to above might have five used Remington shotguns in stock for $600, well the average Canadian gun store might have 20 of the same gun for $350-400.……….

I know myself, as a gun owner, if the retail price of a gun is roughly twice what I’d pay for it in Canada, I’d certainly have a lot less guns………..And if I lived in the States, the inverse.

As to their licence process, it’s similar to what we have here……..Same with their storage laws……….Like I said, New Zealanders can purchase actual Assault Rifles, yet they live in a less dangerous society statistically then the United States………..My point still stands, the type of guns available to a nations legal gun owners plays little into said nations crime rates………It’s almost like it’s some of the people that have access to said guns are the problem……Hmmmmm..........

Why else would a Canadian or New Zealander's AR-15 be less dangerous than an Americans?

[Wilber]

I've no problem with non hunting specific guns or the magazines they use being a lot more expensive, Nothing bad about that.

Whether one country's AR-15 would be would be less dangerous than anothers would depend a lot on who is allowed to own them and the sheer volume of these weapons in the system. Everything else being equal, more guns will equal more gun nomicides. That's just arithmatic.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Wilber

[Guest Derek L]

I've no problem with non hunting specific guns or the magazines they use being a lot more expensive, Nothing bad about that.

Whether one country's AR-15 would be would be less dangerous than anothers would depend a lot on who is allowed to own them and the sheer volume of these weapons in the system. Everything else being equal, more guns will equal more gun nomicides. That's just arithmatic.

I agree fully with you on the lethality of a gun, be it a AK-47 or a single shot Cooey 22lr, being linked to whom has their hands on it…………..As I’ve been saying background checks/ licensing is key………

But to say the amount of guns, equals more gun homicides, on a proportional basis is utter fallacy………In Canada, there are ~2 million legal gun owners and to form perspective, that’s nearly half the population of New Zealand……….but our rate of violent gun crime is relatively equal………..Or to put it another way, you’ve mentioned that you own one beat up old rifle and let’s say my household has over 50 firearms………Does that mean my guns are more lethal then yours? Of course not…………I also feel safe in assuming that you, like myself, are a law abiding citizen……….Now if for the sake of argument we switched each others guns, and your household now had my collection, and mine your solitary rifle……..Does that make me less dangerous and you more dangerous? See my point?

Like I’ve asserted, the type of firearms and/or the number of firearms in the possession of a sane, law abiding citizen is moot, but just one gun in the hands of a mentally disturbed person or a criminal can be more lethal then all of my guns and your rifle combined.

And one thing about price……………Surprisingly, the price of a full automatic Uzi in New Zealand is less than that in the United States………

Christchurch:

http://www.guncity.co.nz/9mm-arma-mini-ero-uzi-xidp231739.html

$6999.00

Utah:

http://www.impactguns.com/imi-mini-uzi-9mm-like-new-in-box-miniuzi.aspx

$8500.00

[Wilber]

Like I’ve asserted, the type of firearms and/or the number of firearms in the possession of a sane, law abiding citizen is moot, but just one gun in the hands of a mentally disturbed person or a criminal can be more lethal then all of my guns and your rifle combined.

The more guns in circulation the more often one will find its way into the hands of a mentaly disturbed person. Mrs. Lanza's guns were legaly owned and as far as we know, she wasn't a threat. That didn't help her or 26 others.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Wilber