Mass shooting

[Guest Derek L]

For sure...my son and I like to visit Cabella's over the holiday break, but now the crowd will be bigger !

For parts, shop online from these guys:

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/

I’ve bought factory sights, magazines, stocks and even springs and screws for guns older than I am with no problem…….A great company in New York.

Another site that I’d buy high-cap STANAG Mags from (and they will pin them to your country/State requirements and do all the necessary paperwork) website's server appears to be down……must have been overwhelmed due to recent events……

[Guest American Woman]

Agreed....we post individual opinions based an authentic American experience from a population exceeding 320,000,000.

Yep.

Not only do we not speak for all Americans, it is also profoundly absurd for wannabe Canadians to do so as well. Both Americans and Canadians are shocked by what happened in a single school on a single day, but the difference is that the Americans know it is not what defines them.

This is true. A lot of people are trying to define Americans this way, but of course it's not the reality. Odd how these same people ignore all of the charitable things that Americans do - and of course these charitable acts don't define Americans. Oh, no. Even though such acts outweigh the bad considerably.

Some Canadians defines themselves by observing and passing judgement on what happens in the USA....it is essential for them to make such smug/superior differentiations, lest the Canadian identity not exist as much different from Americans.

That's really apparent in this thread.

If Americans dare mention horrific Canadian crimes committed with or without guns, we are dismissed because there's is a "reasonable" and "balanced" level of death and misery.

As I said, like Baby Bear's porridge, it's "just right."

Edited December 15, 2012 by American Woman

[Shady]

Oh my. All the experts on American culture. Yes, we Americans look down on the poor and idolize the rich - which is likely why this young man from a rich family did what he did.

Exactly. Nevermind the trillions of dollars spent each year on poverty programs, $60,000 dollars per family in poverty. You guys hate the poor because some bigoted Canadian says so!

[Guest American Woman]

Exactly. Nevermind the trillions of dollars spent each year on poverty programs, $60,000 dollars per family in poverty. You guys hate the poor because some bigoted Canadian says so!

That pretty much sums it up.

[bush_cheney2004]

....website's server appears to be down……must have been overwhelmed due to recent events……

[Guest Derek L]

In my opinion this is precisely the problem. It's not so much the access to guns alone that's the problem. Or even poverty itself. However, the combination of extremely easy access to guns and massive income inequality, coupled with a culture that looks down on the poor and idolizes the rich is a disastrous recipe.

Guns aren’t cheap……..Is there any indicator to suggest that the recent shooting was financially motivated? I heard the alleged shooter suffered from a form of Autism.....

[cybercoma]

How many serving members of the IDF have taken their service M-16/M-4 or Uzi (actual assault weapons, not sporter Semi-autos) and hosed down a Kindergarten class?

http://www.guardian....d-children-gaza

You can't see the forest for the trees. Income inequality breeds a culture of distrust, fear, and resentment. It isn't restricted to the segments of society without. It pervades all social classes, as the wealthy fear having what's theirs taken and the poor resent being characterized as too lazy to make it, despite there being a clear glass ceiling in the US. It has significantly lower social mobility than places like Denmark. Meanwhile, the American Dream is still very much part an integral part of the culture, which leads people to look down on the poor for not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps. When society is full of this kind neurotic mixed-messaging, it breeds distrust and fear. Give a bunch of people in that social context easy access to firearms and the powder keg explodes.

You can sit here and turn your nose up at these arguments about American culture and how it breeds violence, but it's very clear that there is a problem with violence given the number of mass shootings that you have there. It's easy for you to sit here and criticize the social theories that people are putting forward, but you're not even in the same city as the ballpark where people are trying to come up with explanations and understandings of this social phenomena that seems to be unique to the United States. At least the theories that have been put forward have some explanatory power.

Let's hear how you explain the significant difference in the number of mass homicides in the US versus other industrialized nations.

Edit: I should also add that media, as betsy mentioned, certainly does play a part in this. It only takes a couple of these mass shootings to happen before other people have the idea of this in the back of their mind and will begin copying that behaviour when they snap.

And guns need to be more strictly regulated and access to them reduced because a) they make people more efficient killers, and if they're harder to get they become more expensive for criminals to get their hands on in the black market.

Edited December 15, 2012 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

Guns aren’t cheap……..Is there any indicator to suggest that the recent shooting was financially motivated? I heard the alleged shooter suffered from a form of Autism.....

You're missing the point. See my last post. Being fixated on a particular incident does nothing to address the larger problem.

Edited December 15, 2012 by cybercoma

[Guest Derek L]

Yeah they would sell six-packs of 30 round US Army steel mags for under $100 with the shipping…….They even carried the much sought after factory Ruger Mini-14 20 & 30 rounders, which are about as easy to find as a unicorn.

[bush_cheney2004]

You can sit here and turn your nose up at these arguments about American culture and how it breeds violence, but it's very clear that there is a problem with violence given the number of mass shootings that you have there.

"Violence" and firearms have always been part of American culture, purposely so by very sane people. The nation was founded that way, starting with a very violent boot in the ass to your monarchy. This was followed by rapid expansion west, and ultimate emergence as the world's lone superpower. However, it does not have the highest poverty rates or gun related homicide rates. This is just another smug Canadian slander to make some feel better about their "balanced" and "reasonable" crime rates.

Let's hear how you explain the significant difference in the number of mass homicides in the US versus other industrialized nations.

As I have indicated earlier, there are now more "mass homicides" in northern Mexico, but I guess they don't count. Typical, as some Canadians routinely discount Mexico, refusing to even admit it is part of North America.

[cybercoma]

Nothing? No theory? You have no way of explaining it yet?

You know the irony about your North Mexico example? It's still related to the United States, income inequality, and the American Dream.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yeah they would sell six-packs of 30 round US Army steel mags for under $100 with the shipping…….They even carried the much sought after factory Ruger Mini-14 20 & 30 rounders, which are about as easy to find as a unicorn.

Check it out...I was at a local Menard's home store last month (hunting season) and they were selling "Zombie" ammo boxes (empty) ....and they were going fast. Can't have enough ammo for the Walking Dead....."Are You Ready ? ":

[bush_cheney2004]

Nothing? No theory? You have no way of explaining it yet?

Explain what? I have described America's historical violence here at MLW for years? Do you think you really understand America better than it's own citizens? Sheesh......

You know the irony about your North Mexico example? It's still related to the United States, income inequality, and the American Dream.

OK...I guess that why so many Canadians engage America as well.

[cybercoma]

It's pretty disgusting that you guys are drooling over guns in a thread about mass homicides and in particular someone that walked into a school and murdered a bunch of kindergarten children. Take your guns & ammo love fest to another thread.

[guyser]

Why? 88 guns per 100 American civilians. That's 270 million guns owned by civilians. The US has a massive gun culture, rooted in its history (legal and otherwise) and the nature of its founding, but also the massive militarization of the country that takes pride/patriotism in the weapons of war it creates/uses.

Many Americans are obsessed with portable murder machines, and see it as a right to own them and train how to use them.

While that may be true, with the number they have, I would think this is a more common occurrence and I dont think it is that common.

Because spree or mass killings peaked in 1929 and have gone down since.

http://news.yahoo.com/no-rise-mass-killings-impact-huge-185700637.html

I am not saying it isnt a problem, because it obviously is, but with freedom, and certain culture traits, this is what happens.

The guns were his moms, and if banned now, she may have been grandfathered in to own them. So in any event, they were legal and safely stored as per law (presumably but only a minor point) If he is denied access to the guns, perhaps he goes and copies the Murragh bombing in OKC.

[cybercoma]

Do you think you really understand America better than it's own citizens? Sheesh......

Right. Because a social theorist needs to come from America to talk about American society. Give me a break. I think there are plenty of American citizens that don't understand their society as well as plenty of people that aren't American citizens and study social theory.

[Guest Derek L]

And guns need to be more strictly regulated and access to them reduced because a) they make people more efficient killers, and if they're harder to get they become more expensive for criminals to get their hands on in the black market.

That should read :

People need to be more strictly regulated

As has been stated, the murder rate in the United States (and Canada) has been going down for the last several decades, yet incidents like this recent shooting seem to be more common………I’m sure some of it is to do with 24/7 media, thusly allowing us to be more aware of such incidents, but there is something different……

You claim access to firearms is one of the problems, but that isn’t factual……….When I was growing up, and I’m sure BC2004, guns & ammo were cheap (I can remember, in the late 60s and early 70s, going into Army Navy surplus stores and they would have bins full of actual surplus combat rifles for under $20), laws were next to non existent but the frequency of nutbars shooting up schools and public places was less………….

Obviously something has changed between then and now………And it’s not the guns themselves.

[Guest American Woman]

I think there are plenty of American citizens that don't understand their society as well as plenty of people that aren't American citizens and study social theory.

[punked]

That should read :

People need to be more strictly regulated

That is your opinion on soft drugs ISN'T IT? Don't be a hypocrite. Either you are personal freedom and responsibility or you aren't which is it?

[cybercoma]

That should read :

People need to be more strictly regulated

As has been stated, the murder rate in the United States (and Canada) has been going down for the last several decades, yet incidents like this recent shooting seem to be more common………I’m sure some of it is to do with 24/7 media, thusly allowing us to be more aware of such incidents, but there is something different……

You claim access to firearms is one of the problems, but that isn’t factual……….When I was growing up, and I’m sure BC2004, guns & ammo were cheap (I can remember, in the late 60s and early 70s, going into Army Navy surplus stores and they would have bins full of actual surplus combat rifles for under $20), laws were next to non existent but the frequency of nutbars shooting up schools and public places was less………….

Obviously something has changed between then and now………And it’s not the guns themselves.

I didn't claim access to firearms is one of the problems. I claimed it's part of a constellation of factors that encourages these kinds of killings.

[Guest Derek L]

Check it out...I was at a local Menard's home store last month (hunting season) and they were selling "Zombie" ammo boxes (empty) ....and they were going fast. Can't have enough ammo for the Walking Dead....."Are You Ready ? ":

They have those up here at the big box stores like Cabelas and Wholesale Sports.........Now Hornady has really cashed in on the Walking Dead by repackaging their critical defence line of ammo:

[Guest Derek L]

That is your opinion on soft drugs ISN'T IT? Don't be a hypocrite. Either you are personal freedom and responsibility or you aren't which is it?

No, I stated numerous times that I don't care if they legalize drugs, with the one caveat being people using well driving are subjected to the same laws as drunks and the border doesn’t get screwed up.

[punked]

No, I stated numerous times that I don't care if they legalize drugs, with the one caveat being people using well driving are subjected to the same laws as drunks and the border doesn’t get screwed up.

Good look at us finding common ground on personal freedom, both guns and soft drugs should be subject to laws on their use but that is where it should stop.

[Smallc]

I think all 3 of us agree there.

[bush_cheney2004]

Right. Because a social theorist needs to come from America to talk about American society. Give me a break. I think there are plenty of American citizens that don't understand their society as well as plenty of people that aren't American citizens and study social theory.

I'm sure there are (e.g. Tocqueville), but it sure as hell ain't you !