"temporary" workers?

[The_Squid]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/12/12/bc-chinese-miners-documents.html

"What the document says categorically is it will be 4½ years before a single Canadian will be working underground at the mine," said B.C. Federation of Labour president Jim Sinclair.

"After 4½ years, it will be 10 years before it will be a majority of Canadians working underground, and it will be 15 years before the temporary foreign workers are finished working in that mine."

Temporary means 14+ years? That's nearly a career!

Temporary should mean temporary.... And 15 years is not temporary. The government has let the temp worker program become a fiasco.

[Fletch 27]

Its a shame Canadians dont want these jobs.

[cybercoma]

Riight. Because Canadians will go work the oil fields, but they won't do this, eh?

[Fletch 27]

Riight. Because Canadians will go work the oil fields, but they won't do this, eh?

Correct

[cybercoma]

It's funny, you free-market zealots. You claim the market corrects itself and that companies will have to offer higher wages for people to do the work. People are free to not work for a company because they don't pay well enough, so they're forced to offer competitive wages to get the labour.

Then you're just absolutely giddy that they will bend Canadians over by hiring "temporary" workers for 14 years, who can be paid less than the industry average thanks to the Conservatives.

This assault on the working class needs to end.

Edited December 14, 2012 by cybercoma

[Fletch 27]

It's funny, you free-market zealots. You claim the market corrects itself and that companies will have to offer higher wages for people to do the work. People are free to not work for a company because they don't pay well enough, so they're forced to offer competitive wages to get the labour.

Then you're just absolutely giddy that they will bend Canadians over by hiring "temporary" workers for 14 years, who can be paid less than the industry average thanks to the Conservatives.

This assault on the working class needs to end.

The Market has corrected itself... Please see the link that was provided. Cyber, We can not force people to work in Coal-Mines... This is not the 1800's.

[cybercoma]

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/does-canada-have-a-labour-shortage-or-a-skills-shortage/article5992219/?service=mobile

People would work in coal mines if the employers paid them enough. Since they don't want to pay them enough, they turn to the government and beg them to bring in foreign workers.

There is not a labour shortage that needs to be filled by foreign workers here. There is a shortage of people willing to do the work for the price that the companies want to pay. A true free-marketer would find it appalling that they would go to the government and beg for foreign workers. Instead, you would rally behind the market and criticize them for not adapting to the market conditions without government intervention.

Instead, you want to have your cake and eat it too. You want to pretend the free-market corrects itself, but you ignore the fact that these companies are undermining the labour market by importing cheap labour. It's readily apparent in this case example that the free market is a sham. Conservatives like yourself like to argue that a company offering minimum wage that doesn't find employees will raise those wages until the reach the fair market value for labour in those positions. Except that's not the way it works. The company offers a low wage and if that's not what the fair market value is for the labour, they ask the government to go to import employees from piss poor developing countries and pay them unfairly low wages.

Further to the point, the government has even made this situation worse. How do they know there's a "shortage" of labour? It's the companies that tell them. The government doesn't then look at whether or not the company is offering fair market value for the jobs. They just assume that they are. But why should they? The government has recently allowed companies to pay temporary foreign workers below the average wage for any given position. Why would a company pay more? How can free market principles work if wages are not allowed to rise as they should?

[Fletch 27]

http://m.theglobeand...?service=mobile

People would work in coal mines if the employers paid them enough. Since they don't want to pay them enough, they turn to the government and beg them to bring in foreign workers.

There is not a labour shortage that needs to be filled by foreign workers here. There is a shortage of people willing to do the work for the price that the companies want to pay. A true free-marketer would find it appalling that they would go to the government and beg for foreign workers. Instead, you would rally behind the market and criticize them for not adapting to the market conditions without government intervention.

Instead, you want to have your cake and eat it too. You want to pretend the free-market corrects itself, but you ignore the fact that these companies are undermining the labour market by importing cheap labour. It's readily apparent in this case example that the free market is a sham. Conservatives like yourself like to argue that a company offering minimum wage that doesn't find employees will raise those wages until the reach the fair market value for labour in those positions. Except that's not the way it works. The company offers a low wage and if that's not what the fair market value is for the labour, they ask the government to go to import employees from piss poor developing countries and pay them unfairly low wages.

Further to the point, the government has even made this situation worse. How do they know there's a "shortage" of labour? It's the companies that tell them. The government doesn't then look at whether or not the company is offering fair market value for the jobs. They just assume that they are. But why should they? The government has recently allowed companies to pay temporary foreign workers below the average wage for any given position. Why would a company pay more? How can free market principles work if wages are not allowed to rise as they should?

How much should an apple-picker be paid? Should he be paid 10 bucks an hour? 30? Should an education not be taken into account? Some jobs simply do not warrent high pay.. Unless you dont mind paying 7 buck an apple!

The Market has indeed corrected itself,, and it will continue.

No one wanted the Job... End of story... Well, unless you wish to force people into the mines again Cyber

[bush_cheney2004]

No, the "labour market" includes more than just Canada, just as it always has. This isn't the first time Chinese workers have been "imported" to do Canada's dirty work.

[Michael Hardner]

We're seeing the end-game here though. If we see any kind of economic boom in the next 4 years then people will realize that the gloom-n-doom against all things Obama are for naught. Diminished returns for investors aren't always a bad thing.

[Guest Peeves]

We're seeing the end-game here though. If we see any kind of economic boom in the next 4 years then people will realize that the gloom-n-doom against all things Obama are for naught. Diminished returns for investors aren't always a bad thing.

" Diminished returns for investors aren't always a bad thing.' since many of us working stiffs are investors, how would it rather be a good thing?

Since there then would follow lower tax from the diminished returns, how would it be a good thing.

On reflection the only way it might be a good thing if it resulted from lower sale prices. i.e gas companies face diminished returns from lowering price at the pump...oh yeh....

[Guest Peeves]

It's funny, you free-market zealots.

truncated for brevity.

This assault on the working class needs to end.

Another move in the 'right' direction...

Citizenship and immigration Canada has accepted over 20,000 foreign skilled workers and international graduates since the inception of the program in the year 2008. It is expected that up to 10,000 permanent residents through CEC will be accepted during the year 2013.

“The CEC has become Canada’s fastest growing economic immigration program and is part of our plan to attract the best and brightest from around the world,” Jason Kenney further said.

CEC provides an opportunity to the foreign nationals who meet certain criteria to obtain Canadianpermanent residency.

Source: http://news.visato.com/canada/new-canadian-experience-class-criteria-for-permanent-residency/20121212/

[

http://nexuscanada.blogspot.ca/

Edited December 14, 2012 by Peeves

[Michael Hardner]

" Diminished returns for investors aren't always a bad thing.' since many of us working stiffs are investors, how would it rather be a good thing?

Since there then would follow lower tax from the diminished returns, how would it be a good thing.

It could be a good thing if the money that isn`t returned to the investor is used for better benefit overall.

[bush_cheney2004]

We're seeing the end-game here though. If we see any kind of economic boom in the next 4 years then people will realize that the gloom-n-doom against all things Obama are for naught. Diminished returns for investors aren't always a bad thing.

Not sure what Obama has to do with temp workers in Canada, but be advised that US presidents do not really drive economic booms or busts.

[Michael Hardner]

Not sure what Obama has to do with temp workers in Canada, but be advised that US presidents do not really drive economic booms or busts.

I wish more people agreed with you on that.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I wish more people agreed with you on that.

That depends on who is in power.

[Wilber]

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Chinese+miner+launches+human+rights+complaint/7698112/story.html

This cute. A local radio show interviewed this guy through an interpreter. He had a bit of trouble answering questions but when he was asked who's idea it was, he said it was his. When he was asked how he new about the tribunal system and who helped him with it, he said his company. Said he didn't know about any human rights violations in china. Be interesting to see what on of our star chambers does with this.

[Bonam]

It's funny, you free-market zealots. You claim the market corrects itself and that companies will have to offer higher wages for people to do the work. People are free to not work for a company because they don't pay well enough, so they're forced to offer competitive wages to get the labour.

Then you're just absolutely giddy that they will bend Canadians over by hiring "temporary" workers for 14 years, who can be paid less than the industry average thanks to the Conservatives.

Personally, I disagree here. The US laws in this regard are a better model: to bring in a foreign worker, temporary or otherwise, a company is required to demonstrate: 1) that there is no qualified American willing to do the job, and 2) that the wage offered is at least equal to the prevailing wage for that occupation in the US. Of course, said laws impose such a high paperwork burden that a lot of immigration and temporary work for low-skill occupations is done illegally instead, but they are a reasonable ideal if they could be implemented in a streamlined manner.

[Argus]

How much should an apple-picker be paid? Should he be paid 10 bucks an hour? 30? Should an education not be taken into account? Some jobs simply do not warrent high pay..

You seem confused. According to the free market, the lack of response to a job paying 10 bucks indicates that the remuneration is insufficient. The market then responds by forcing the employer to raise the level of pay. That is how the free market economy works, and that is how the value of a job is determined. If you are a free market lover, which you have stated before you are, then you be upset about the free market being distorted by importing cheap foreign labour.

[Argus]

It could be a good thing if the money that isn`t returned to the investor is used for better benefit overall.

Depends. The less money returned to investors the less investors there will be. If you think investors a necessary part of the economy (they certainly are) then it could well be a BAD thing.

[Bryan]

You seem confused. According to the free market, the lack of response to a job paying 10 bucks indicates that the remuneration is insufficient. The market then responds by forcing the employer to raise the level of pay. That is how the free market economy works, and that is how the value of a job is determined. If you are a free market lover, which you have stated before you are, then you be upset about the free market being distorted by importing cheap foreign labour.

That's still free market. When you can't get what you need locally, you import it.

[Michael Hardner]

Depends. The less money returned to investors the less investors there will be. If you think investors a necessary part of the economy (they certainly are) then it could well be a BAD thing.

Not necessarily. The numbers matter here.

[Argus]

That's still free market. When you can't get what you need locally, you import it.

From a different market. Or if you're a total free trader than you believe in tearing down all walls and letting anyone in who wants to. That would flood the country with cheap labour and cause wages to plummet. Who here is a free trader to that extent?

And before anyone says 'me me me' consider whether you're ready to see your salary fall by 50%-60% -70% or more.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Argus

[Canuckistani]

From a different market. Or if you're a total free trader than you believe in tearing down all walls and letting anyone in who wants to. That would flood the country with cheap labour and cause wages to plummet. Who here is a free trader to that extent?

And before anyone says 'me me me' consider whether you're ready to see your salary fall by 50%-60% -70% or more.

Might as well just have open borders. We'll balance out with Asia - they'll drop to 2 billion, Canada and the US will rise to 2 billion. Everybody will be happy.

[punked]

Its a shame Canadians dont want these jobs.

Can I just point out Canadians do want these jobs. The only reasons they weren't given to Canadians because your Government approved this Chinese owned mine then approved an application that said they needed people that speak Chinese to work in these mines. That is your government and you wouldn't be allowed to work in these mines either because of your Prime Minster.