First nations patiences waning

[NativeCharm]

I'd say it looks more like the Occupy movement. Professional protestors leading around angry people who don't even know what they're even protesting, no cohesive message, no tangible objective, splintering and getting even more diluted as time goes on.

We are working towards solutions to avoid being Occupy part deux. Its developing nicely, its a challenge when so many people want to be inolved. Its a symptom from being oppressed for so long. Our true messages will ring through clear soon for those that can see too well. Cant say that for those with blinders on tho.

Edited January 5, 2013 by NativeCharm

[Smallc]

Most of us don't agree that aboriginal people have been oppressed in recent times, so I doubt your message will resonate.

[NativeCharm]

Most of us don't agree that aboriginal people have been oppressed in recent times, so I doubt your message will resonate.

I highly doubt you represent "most".

[jbg]

That's one of the very few things that I agreed with Trudeau about. We all are just Canadians. This whole concept that there's this "nation" and that "nation" is complete B.S.

Except he was the author of bi-bi first and then multiculturalism. Hardly a policy of making everyone Canadians.

[Sleipnir]

BOOM! obvious stereotype. am I not dark enough to be native? tell me..wth are we supposed to look like? All the same?

You're jumping ahead of yourself by 150 steps, try to think these things rationally without being highly sensitive.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Sleipnir

[Bryan]

I highly doubt you represent "most".

In this case, his opinion probably does represent a majority or close to it. If anything, it's very offensive to being paying millions upon millions of dollars in, only to have the recipients turn around and claim oppression.

[Smallc]

Except he was the author of bi-bi first and then multiculturalism. Hardly a policy of making everyone Canadians.

That was in fact the exact purpose of those things.

[Sleipnir]

There are better ways to raise issues that plague first nation communities then to retort to illegal tactics to disrupt Canada which will only fuel hostilities from the general public.

[NativeCharm]

You're jumping ahead of yourself by 150 steps, try to think these things rationally without being highly sensitive.

dude, you just told me to call myself white and said i looked white ( or not native enough). Whatever, its a weak comment comeback, again. If your gonna spew stupid remarks at least be creative and provide some level of enertainment for making up for your shortcomings at a producitve dialogue. Sorry, but I gotta put you on the ignore list.

[The_Squid]

I highly doubt you represent "most".

I'm afraid he's right.... When you use terms like "oppressed" like it is happening currently, you lose people who would have generally been on your side. You are not oppressed.

[eyeball]

I think Idle No More is a good idea. Just as I thought the Occupy movement was a good idea. Let's hope it doesn't just fizzle out like Occupy. I'm not in agreement with the goals of the Idle No More movement, but just keeping the status quo is not a good idea either. My hope is that INM will wake up the Second Nations people to demand that First Nations be integrated into society with no more special rights. But, if the majority of Canadians decide they want to continue this racist system, just give FN's more money, well that's democracy.

What we really need is the same willingness to tell Ottawa to go piss up a rope coupled with the expectation that they probably will.

I'd give my left arm to have the opportunity First Nations in my region have. Like the fellow who runs the Miss April - a 38 foot combination troller and ground-fish long-liner along with crab and prawn traps - and nary a federal licence in sight. He fishes about 300 or so hooks for halibut and cod, sets a few crab and prawn traps on he way to the groundfish bank. He sets his gear and then trolls for salmon for a few hours with only two lines while the long-line soaks. He then hauls his long line gear and on the way in checks his crab and prawn traps. He meets his wife at the dock who picks up the catch and distributes it to whoever ordered it and a restaurant or two. It is the epitome of an idyllic and very sustainable way of life that I as a non-native disenfranchised fisherman can now only dream about.

His neighbour, also a native, is a logger and every so often he goes out and cuts down a big old-growth cedar and spends the next few months turning it into 10000 or so bucks. If I tried that...I'd be crucified. The only non-natives I know who are basically allowed to 'rape' and 'pillage' with the near certainty Ottawa and Victoria will go piss up a rope for them too are big corporations.

Edited to add: There are, sadly, a number of people in my region who call these two examples I provided raping and pillaging. I guess they just can't get past their gall and they're probably little more than good-for-nothing sycophants as far as I'm concerned.

But now that I know what self government really looks like, I definitely want some too.

What we need is an Idled No More movement.

Edited January 5, 2013 by eyeball

[The_Squid]

How does any native fit the label of oppressed, in this day and age?

How are you oppressed yourself?

Edited January 5, 2013 by The_Squid

[NativeCharm]

What we really need is the same willingness to tell Ottawa to go piss up a rope coupled with the expectation that they probably will.

I'd give my left arm to have the opportunity First Nations in my region have. Like the fellow who runs the Miss April - a 38 foot combination troller and ground-fish long-liner along with crab and prawn traps - and nary a federal licence in sight. He fishes about 300 or so hooks for halibut and cod, sets a few crab and prawn traps on he way to the groundfish bank. He sets his gear and then trolls for salmon for a few hours with only two lines while the long-line soaks. He then hauls his long line gear and on the way in checks his crab and prawn traps. He meets his wife at the dock who picks up the catch and distributes it to whoever ordered it and a restaurant or two. It is the epitome of an idyllic and very sustainable way of life that I as a non-native disenfranchised fisherman can now only dream about.

His neighbour, also a native, is a logger and every so often he goes out and cuts down a big old-growth cedar and spends the next few months turning it into 10000 or so bucks. If I tried that...I'd be crucified. The only non-natives I know who are basically allowed to rape and pillage with the near certainty Ottawa and Victoria will go piss up a rope for them too are big corporations.

Now that I know what self government really looks like, I definitely want some too.

What we need is an Idled No More movement.

The best post I've seen here yet. It's voices like you that I truly value. Whether people agree or not, the most important thing that I've stressing and trying to impress all along is ...Sustainable Environment, Sustainable Economy.

Protect the people that protect the lands.

Edited January 5, 2013 by NativeCharm

[Smallc]

Protect the people that protect the lands.

And that's a bunch of bull, quite frankly. Aboriginal people are no more stewards of the environment than anyone else. At this point in history, you are no more connected to the land than any of us. I hiked 9kms over ice and snow today through the wilderness, because I wanted to. Last week, aboriginal hunters in Duck Mountain Provincial Park killed 12 elk, 8 of them female. They took only the hind quarters. There is significant outrage over this, but it's only the tip of the iceberg. I know aboriginal hunters that go out every night and wound countless deer. Why?

My point? Ethnicity doesn't determine your commitment to the environment.

[The_Squid]

The best post I've seen here yet. It's voices like you that I truly value. Whether people agree or not, the most important thing that I've stressing and trying to impress all along is ...Sustainable Environment, Sustainable Economy.

Protect the people that protect the lands.

Allowing natives, but not non-natives, to make a living without paying for commercial licences or having any harvest rules is NOT sustainable and it creates animosity in the community.

[NativeCharm]

And that's a bunch of bull, quite frankly. Aboriginal people are no more stewards of the environment than anyone else. At this point in history, you are no more connected to the land than any of us. I hiked 9kms over ice and snow today through the wilderness, because I wanted to. Last week, aboriginal hunters in Duck Mountain Provincial Park killed 12 elk, 8 of them female. They took only the hind quarters. There is significant outrage over this, but it's only the tip of the iceberg. I know aboriginal hunters that go out every night and wound countless deer. Why?

I call your bullshit. and even if so, thats like insinuating all our hunters are wasteful, just like you assumed all our leaders are corrupt. If youre gonna highlight our behaviour, then examine yours. Its your stupid harper govt that is giving insane, illegal, immoral rights and countless financial benefits to the greedy corporations. They get more tax breaks, hand outs, bail outs and backroom deals and for what? so the privileged few with the whitest education can get the jobs? He's bringing in other people to take more of the 'created' jobs, that we are already fighting eachother for.

Native people share a responsibility to live up to the sacrifices of our ancestors, to the duty we have as guardians of the earth, and to the expectations that our children and grandchildren have of us to protect them. That is part of our culture, our history, our roots and our way of life. Does not matter if you believe or disagree. It is not your culture, why would you understand it?

Just because you spend time outdoors doesnt mean you take any action to protect it. Do you really want to get into an environmental stewardship discussion with me?

[NativeCharm]

Allowing natives, but not non-natives, to make a living without paying for commercial licences or having any harvest rules is NOT sustainable and it creates animosity in the community.

That is not what I meant to say and you are twisting my words.

[Smallc]

I call your bullshit. and even if so, thats like insinuating all our hunters are wasteful, just like you assumed all our leaders are corrupt.

You see everything as an attack, even when it clearly wasn't intended that way.

If youre gonna highlight our behaviour, then examine yours.

Its your stupid harper govt that is giving insane, illegal, immoral rights and countless financial benefits to the greedy corporations. They get more tax breaks, hand outs, bail outs and backroom deals and for what? so the privileged few with the whitest education can get the jobs? He's bringing in other people to take more of the 'created' jobs, that we are already fighting eachother for.

Native people share a responsibility to live up to the sacrifices of our ancestors, to the duty we have as guardians of the earth, and to the expectations that our children and grandchildren have of us to protect them.

That's just fluff.

That is part of our culture, our history, our roots and our way of life. Does not matter if you believe or disagree. It is not your culture, why would you understand it?

It doesn't matter what I see either, apparently, or that I have a pretty good understanding of human nature.

Just because you spend time outdoors doesnt mean you take any action to protect it. Do you really want to get into an environmental stewardship discussion with me?

Your view is that stewardship of the environment is an ethnic thing. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[The_Squid]

That is not what I meant to say and you are twisting my words.

I know you didn't say it, however, that's what's happening here....

How are you oppressed? You forgot to respond to the question....

[NativeCharm]

well, i have yet to figure out multi quotes...it makes it hard to respond. Its also a challenge being the only voice here and a few of you at me in different directions.

Contrary to the smallc, I DO have an idea what I'm talking about and I feel like I'm the only one here attempting to understand anothers point of view. My view of environmental stewardship is not merely, nor solely an ethnic thing. If you can not even admit the connection that Indigenous people have to the land, then I simply reject any comment or statement you make to any of my expressions.

Dear Squid boy: I personally, do not feel oppressed. Thank you for your concern.

[Smallc]

well, i have yet to figure out multi quotes...it makes it hard to respond. Its also a challenge being the only voice here and a few of you at me in different directions.

We're coming at you from different directions because we're different people with different points of view.

Contrary to the smallc, I DO have an idea what I'm talking about and I feel like I'm the only one here attempting to understand anothers point of view. My view of environmental stewardship is not merely, nor solely an ethnic thing. If you can not even admit the connection that Indigenous people have to the land, then I simply reject any comment or statement you make to any of my expressions.

The idea that someone has a connection to the land simply because they're aboriginal is absolutely laughable, and I simply reject that.

[NativeCharm]

We're coming at you from different directions because we're different people with different points of view.

and thats ok, clearly I can handle it.

Take care, for now

[eyeball]

The best post I've seen here yet. It's voices like you that I truly value. Whether people agree or not, the most important thing that I've stressing and trying to impress all along is ...Sustainable Environment, Sustainable Economy.

Protect the people that protect the lands.

The only way to do that is to let the people who depend the most on those lands and waters manage them, not absentee representatives that are three thousand miles away and don't have any real stake in the region.

As for native and non-native people sharing responsibility for stewarding and sharing resources within the region they both co-habit, how do you imagine a non-native like myself could be afforded the same opportunity as the two men I described? Neither Ottawa or Victoria will have little if anything to do with the likes of me so the only way I know is if native leaders respect and grant my human right to sustain myself from the resources that surround me. I'm willing to abide by the rules and conditions native leaders in my region determine is best and fair and if the people who insist on being 'lead' from afar take umbrage at my being granted permission by local chiefs instead of Ottawa, will native people stand up for me? I think I know a few who might but I think that might cause a few very interesting ripples to start rippling across a few very different ponds.

Note to Smallc, the people I described are as far as I know operating with their chief's permission and oversight. Trust me, the economic operations I'm describing are just not capable of over-harvesting. Granted, I suppose that could change if these folks started setting out for work everyday with multi-million dollar factory trawlers or grapple-yarders but that doesn't seem very likely. It's just not their style. It's definitely not mine either.

Edited January 5, 2013 by eyeball

[TimG]

If you can not even admit the connection that Indigenous people have to the land...

You do realize you are spreading racist stereotypes with such claims? I see no difference between you claiming that all natives are inherently 'stewards of nature' and someone else who says that all natives 'lazy drunks'. Both are stereotypes which are harmful because they are not true and they encourage people to judge natives as a group rather than as individuals. Edited January 5, 2013 by TimG

[Sleipnir]

dude, you just told me to call myself white and said i looked white ( or not native enough).

You bought it upon yourself by saying what you just said.

Whatever, its a weak comment comeback, again. If your gonna spew stupid remarks at least be creative and provide some level of enertainment for making up for your shortcomings at a producitve dialogue.

This a prime example of statement coming from a person who doesn't think critically to the responses she's getting. Keep in mind that you played the 'white' card and I simply deflected it back at you - the response I got from you isn't surprising.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Sleipnir