Gay "in denial"....and Gay-to-straight theraphy

[betsy]

My source is the headlines on the supermarket tabloids. Do you think I really give a damn one way or another?

Oh yes you do! Otherwise you wouldn't be clutching at straws in your desperate and (maniacal ?) attempt to smear Christianity and all these hypocritical little christians. Referring to tabloid headlines as your source!

Yeah. The queen apparently had a sex change two decades ago! And Kate Middleton was adopted and raised by a dysfunctional couple - a lesbian and a homo - who formed an alliance in their desire to penetrate the palace! It was in the headline of a tabloid!

I hope you believe too that ex-Christians who ends up irrational, rabid Christian-haters on forums are actually aliens from the planet Wippitywip, so confused by this thing called Christianity? Didn't you see that in the headline? Or was that you in the picture? Three weeks ago, I believe....as I was checking out at a Mac's.

Edited December 11, 2012 by betsy

[Mighty AC]

Questions for everyone. Caution: rational thinking involved.

How do these so-called experts who say it's dangerous to do such theraphy know that ALL gays were "born" gay?

How do they know that everyone fit the same profile?

That no one among these gay is truly unhappy about his gayness - since deep inside he might be truly a heterosexual?

I have no doubt that some homosexuals are unhappy about being born gay. I doubt anyone would volunteer to be the target of physical and emotional abuse by hateful bigots. You can't shame or bully a black man into being white, so why would you think the same approach is even remotely acceptable for homosexuals?!

Imagine being made to feel defective and being forced to live a lie just to avoid losing the acceptance of friends and family. Like a bullied child in school, imagine living every day in fear of ridicule and scorn by complete strangers for something you have no control over. You are the bully in this situation and people like you help contribute to misery they experience.

[Mighty AC]

[Sleipnir]

But what about children or young teens who'd been sexually abused by same-sex abusers (a coach, priest, teacher, etc..)......you think it's not possible that some of these children had grown up with some confusion as to their sexuality? If their abuser was a man - why wouldn't they be posibly confused that they could be gay?

Because there are no evidence to show such connection.

1) How do these so-called experts who say it's dangerous to do such theraphy know that ALL gays were "born" gay?

2) How do they know that everyone fit the same profile?

3) That no one among these gay is truly unhappy about his gayness - since deep inside he might be truly a heterosexual?

1) How do these so-called experts who say it's dangerous to do such therapy know that all straight were "born" straight?

2) How do they know that everyone fit the same profile?

3) That no one among these straight is truly unhappy about his straightness - since deep inside he might be truly a homosexual?

So as you can see....it's not all so simple as you guys (mis)understand it. You should try to look farther than the tip of your noses.

You're the only person here in this thread that seems to misunderstand it. There is nothing wrong with being gay and treating it as a disability isn't helping those who are gay.

So they could've been heterosexuals in the first place, who had - for whatever reasons - dabbled or thought they're gays, only to realize in the end that they are not gay, so they got back on track as being heterosexuals. I can see that.

To repeat cybercoma's comment - sexuality is not binary, ever heard of bisexual? Or a case of being 'curious'?

Edited December 11, 2012 by Sleipnir

[guyser]

So as you can see....it's not all so simple as you guys (mis)understand it. You should try to look farther than the tip of your noses.

Actually Betsy, it is you, once again, climbed out on a limb and prove that you have a total misunderstanding of the issue,

You are conflating pedophilia with homosexuality.

Par for the course when it s an uber-religious shill.

[betsy]

I have no doubt that some homosexuals are unhappy about being born gay.

Do you think it possible that someone only think or believed he's gay because of some traumatic experience such as sexual abuse?

If a gay person will go to the extent of seeking professional help to become un-gay.....to say one is unhappy about being gay is an understatement.

[betsy]

I have no doubt that some homosexuals are unhappy about being born gay. I doubt anyone would volunteer to be the target of physical and emotional abuse by hateful bigots. You can't shame or bully a black man into being white, so why would you think the same approach is even remotely acceptable for homosexuals?!

Race and sexual preference are not the same thing.

[Sleipnir]

Do you think it possible that someone only think or believed he's gay because of some traumatic experience such as sexual abuse?

There is no evidence that sexual abuses changes gender. Personal belief and evidence are not the same thing.

Race and sexual preference are not the same thing.

Sexual orientation and sexual attraction are not the same thing.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Sleipnir

[Mighty AC]

Race and sexual preference are not the same thing.

We don't choose our race or our sexual orientation; discrimination based on either is immoral.

[betsy]

Actually Betsy, it is you, once again, climbed out on a limb and prove that you have a total misunderstanding of the issue,

You are conflating pedophilia with homosexuality.

Well, since you brought up "conflation" between a form of peadophilia and homosexuality..... here....you can read this and make what you wish of it.

Have you seen the documentary, produced by NAMBLA, called: CHICKEN HAWK: Men Who Love Boys?

Chicken Hawk: Men Who Love Boys is a 1994 documentary produced, written and directed by Adi Sideman. In the film, members of the pedophile/pederasty advocacy organization North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) discuss why they support sexual relationships between men and boys below the age of consent. The film helped raise awareness of the group.^[1][2] The term, "chickenhawk," is sometimes used in gay slang to refer to an older man who chases after younger men.^[3]

http://en.wikipedia....n_Who_Love_Boys

Anyway according to one source,a life-long pederast and homosexual activist named Thorstad clearly describes the important linkage between homosexuality and pedophilia.

In a speech given before a homosexual group in Mexico in 1998, Thorstad said: "Pederasty is the main form that male homosexuality has acquired throughout Western civilization-and not only in the West! Pederasty is inseparable from the high points of Western culture-ancient Greece and the Renaissance." (David Thorstad, "Pederasty And Homosexuality," NAMBLA web site)

I've been trying to access NAMBLA for confirmation of quote, but can't. It might've been taken down again. However, part of the quote can be seen through google search.

Search Results

Pederasty and Homosexuality Cached

Pederasty is the main form that male homosexuality has acquired throughout Western ..... 1Quoted in John Lauritsen and David Thorstad, The Early Homosexual ...

guyser

Par for the course when it s an uber-religious shill.

You seem to echo the battlecry of the gay movement of the 60's: SMASH THE CHURCH! SMASH THE STATE!

Edited December 11, 2012 by betsy

[Sleipnir]

Have you seen the documentary, produced by NAMBLA, called: CHICKEN HAWK: Men Who Love Boys?

NAMBLA is an extreme fringe organization that is strongly rejected by every mainstream gay society in the world.

Pederasty is the main form that male homosexuality has acquired throughout Western ..... 1Quoted in John Lauritsen and David Thorstad, The Early Homosexual ...

Betsy, for the 8th time, there is a difference between sexual attraction and sexual orientation.

You seem to echo the battlecry of the gay movement of the 60's: SMASH THE CHURCH! SMASH THE STATE!

Sounds like to me that you support pederasty.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Sleipnir

[Guest American Woman]

Do you think it possible that someone only think or believed he's gay because of some traumatic experience such as sexual abuse?

If a gay person will go to the extent of seeking professional help to become un-gay.....to say one is unhappy about being gay is an understatement.

If they "think they are gay" because of some traumatic experience, then they are not gay, they are traumatized; and they are not so much sexually attracted to the same sex as they are afraid of the opposite sex. So yes, they need therapy, but not to make them "un-gay," they need it to deal with the traumatic experience. Sounds as if their unhappiness lies with not being able to be with the opposite sex, likely because they aren't comfortable being with the same sex, either.

[betsy]

Okay, back to the topic.....I'd like to exphasize that we're talking about ADULT gays, who are capable of making their own decisions.

It is possible that someone who'd thought he's gay is actually a heterosexual....thus, he seeks to become a heterosexual.

[Sleipnir]

Okay, back to the topic.....I'd like to exphasize that we're talking about ADULT gays, who are capable of making their own decisions.

No, you're talking about how homosexuality is a disease, a disability, a condition that needs to be cure.

[Guest American Woman]

Okay, back to the topic.....I'd like to exphasize that we're talking about ADULT gays, who are capable of making their own decisions.

It is possible that someone who'd thought he's gay is actually a heterosexual....thus, he seeks to become a heterosexual.

If he is a heterosexual, he doesn't have to seek to become a heterosexual. He already is.

[betsy]

If they "think they are gay" because of some traumatic experience, then they are not gay, they are traumatized; and they are not so much sexually attracted to the same sex as they are afraid of the opposite sex. So yes, they need therapy, but not to make them "un-gay," they need it to deal with the traumatic experience. Sounds as if their unhappiness lies with not being able to be with the opposite sex, likely because they aren't comfortable being with the same sex, either.

Do they get sexually attracted to the same sex (like a bi-sexual?), do they indulge in gay sex and later go into a bout of self-hate for doing so? They feel uncomfortable with the opposite sex? Do they just go through the motion?

I don't know.

I've never been in that situation....so I couldn't imagine what one must be going through if one is a victim of a very traumatic experience.

Boy, I've heard of women who turn to lesbians because of bad or abusive husbands....or traumatic first sexual experience with a man! Or because they've not experienced an orgasm with a man, but a woman of course would understand the needs of a woman.

And sometimes, they were just experimenting! Nothing traumatic about it. We hear about sex stories in all-girls boarding schools - and maybe for some, the experimentation is extended beyond the walls of the school. Years later, they grow out of it, become mature and decide enough is enough. They become straight. Quite possible, is it not?

Who knows what goes on in each individual....and that's my point! We can't lump all gays and lesbians in one label and say: Oh, he wants to become heterosexual because he's being pressured by religion.

To simply think that way is pure ignorance. A clear lack of understanding about humanity. A very shallow - and usually self-serving - perspective. Just lay the blame on religion. That is actually the viewpoint of a bigot - fueled by bigotry towards religion.

[betsy]

If he is a heterosexual, he doesn't have to seek to become a heterosexual. He already is.

Well, we can't know more than him, can we? After all, if he feels he has to have theraphy to become un-gay, obviously in his mind he still thinks he is gay!

[guyser]

Well, since you brought up "conflation" between a form of peadophilia and homosexuality..... here....you can read this and make what you wish of it.

Now you introduce pederasty?

Do you have any clue what you are talking about?

Thats a rhettorical statement by the way. The answer is given with each post of yours.

[betsy]

Now you introduce pederasty?

Do you have any clue what you are talking about?

Thats a rhettorical statement by the way. The answer is given with each post of yours.

Like I said, make what you want of it. If you want to pursue that argument, make your own thread.

[Mighty AC]

I'd like to exphasize that we're talking about ADULT gays, who are capable of making their own decisions.

Let's say this adult is a female that has the ability to be attracted to both males and females and they choose to form a relationship with another female. Why is it a problem? Why do you care? Why is it any of your business? Why shouldn't they be allowed to marry, share benefits, split pension income, etc?

[Sleipnir]

Like I said, make what you want of it. If you want to pursue that argument, make your own thread.

Actually he doesn't need to make a new thread - you stated it and now you're being argued aganist.

Let's say this adult is a female that has the ability to be attracted to both males and females and they choose to form a relationship with another female. Why is it a problem? Why do you care? Why is it any of your business? Why shouldn't they be allowed to marry, share benefits, split pension income, etc?

Because in her world, gays needs to be cured.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Sleipnir

[Guest American Woman]

Well, we can't know more than him, can we? After all, if he feels he has to have theraphy to become un-gay, obviously in his mind he still thinks he is gay!

Here's what you said: "It is possible that someone who'd thought he's gay is actually a heterosexual....thus, he seeks to become a heterosexual."

Someone who "thought he was gay but is actually a heterosexual" is a heterosexual. You said so yourself. Therapy isn't turning him from being homosexual to heterosexual. He already is. And obviously if he's seeking therapy to help him, he doesn't "know," either. Which is likely why he's seeking therapy.

If he's actually a homosexual, therapy isn't going to change that. It's not going to make him "un-gay." It may change his behavior, but it's not going to change who/what he is.

[betsy]

If they "think they are gay" because of some traumatic experience, then they are not gay,

Someone who "thought he was gay but is actually a heterosexual" is a heterosexual. You said so yourself. Therapy isn't turning him from being homosexual to heterosexual. He already is. And obviously if he's seeking therapy to help him, he doesn't "know," either. Which is likely why he's seeking therapy

They're not gay....but it's how they think. It's how they "see" themselves.

Like an anorexic looks at herself in the mirror and see this fat person - but we know she's skin and bones - like she's just come back from the concentration camp.

Edited December 11, 2012 by betsy

[GostHacked]

But what about children or young teens who'd been sexually abused by same-sex abusers (a coach, priest, teacher, etc..)......you think it's not possible that some of these children had grown up with some confusion as to their sexuality? If their abuser was a man - why wouldn't they be posibly confused that they could be gay?

Perhaps abusers (like Sandusky) even promoted the idea of having sex between same-sex as normal! You think a predator that's out to seduce and initiate an innocent into a sexual relationship wouldn't "sugar-coat" the experience?

This is a separate situation from people who know they are gay. And we have therapy for kids who have been abused, but it does not account for their own sexual orientation.

[betsy]

If he's actually a homosexual, therapy isn't going to change that. It's not going to make him "un-gay." It may change his behavior, but it's not going to change who/what he is.

No one is sure about that.