F-35 Purchase Cancelled; CF-18 replacement process begins

[Smallc]

Exactly, and is why the purchase will either be deferred or they will run a charade of a process and get sued by the losers.

Is that going to happen before or after your predicted Harper Majority comes back to power?

Edited November 17, 2015 by Smallc

[On Guard for Thee]

The U.S. is building far more F-35s than F-18s....production is ramping up regardless of how Canada decides or dithers:

F-35 prime contractor Lockheed Martin is expanding the capacity of its one-mile, 25-foot long aircraft assembly line facility here so it is capable of producing roughly 200 jets per year by the end of 2019. The F-35 program will triple its aircraft production and fielding rate by 2019, producing over 120 planes per year. It will deliver about 43 planes next year.

You boys buy 'em up. The rest of us will enjoy the fireworks. Politically as well as technically.

[Derek 2.0]

The U.S. is building far more F-35s than F-18s....production is ramping up regardless of how Canada decides or dithers:

And far more F-35s will be produced than Eurofighters, Rafales, Gripens or Super Hornets combined.

[Moonbox]

Is that going to happen before or after your predicted Harper Majority comes back to power?

Heh. Zing!

And far more F-35s will be produced than Eurofighters, Rafales, Gripens or Super Hornets combined.

in arguably the largest defense procurement boondoggle in American, NATO (probably World) history. Numbers are great and all, but only part of the story.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Moonbox

[On Guard for Thee]

And far more F-35s will be produced than Eurofighters, Rafales, Gripens or Super Hornets combined.

Well you recall the old adage about fools and their money eh?

[Derek 2.0]

That's probably because one is designed to replace multiple platforms, where the Super Hornet replaced only the F-14.

Nope:

And was a downgrade in many areas, of both the Tomcat and Intruder.

[On Guard for Thee]

Is that going to happen before or after your predicted Harper Majority comes back to power?

That is a zing!

[Derek 2.0]

Is that going to happen before or after your predicted Harper Majority comes back to power?

Are you derailing your own thread now?

By all means, demonstrate where the Trudeau Government has stashed the funds to purchase a new aircraft.

[bush_cheney2004]

That's probably because one is designed to replace multiple platforms, where the Super Hornet replaced only the F-14.

That's not true at all. The Super Hornet was a stop gap related to the cancellation of another program (A-12 Avenger II).

[On Guard for Thee]

Are you derailing your own thread now?

By all means, demonstrate where the Trudeau Government has stashed the funds to purchase a new aircraft.

Are you derailing your own thread now?

By all means, demonstrate where the Trudeau Government has stashed the funds to purchase a new aircraft.

That one must have stung a bit eh?

[Smallc]

Are you derailing your own thread now?

By all means, demonstrate where the Trudeau Government has stashed the funds to purchase a new aircraft.

We have a DND budget. That budget includes yearly money for procurement. The Conservatives, in their Canada First Defence Strategy planned to be procuring fighters right about...now. They did move some procurement money to 2017-, but, by the time we're actually buying planes, it'll be about 2017.

My point was this - your powers of prediction aren't any better than anyone else's.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Smallc

[Smallc]

That's not true at all. The Super Hornet was a stop gap related to the cancellation of another program (A-12 Avenger II).

And it replaced the F-14 anyway.

[Smallc]

And far more F-35s will be produced than Eurofighters, Rafales, Gripens or Super Hornets combined.

That's likely, but remains to be seen at this point.

[Derek 2.0]

We have a DND budget. That budget includes yearly money for procurement. The Conservatives, in their Canada First Defence Strategy planned to be procuring fighters right about...now. They did move some procurement money to 2017-, but, by the time we're actually buying planes, it'll be about 2017.

So you can't demonstrate where said funds will come from.........hence my point still stands, Trudeau will not buy anything in this mandate, based on his own budget framework through 2019.

[Bonam]

They did move some procurement money to 2017-, but, by the time we're actually buying planes, it'll be about 2017.

That seems very optimistic. The F-35 process dragged on for over a decade. If the whole process is being scrapped and started again from scratch, it seems doubtful we'll be seeing any new planes of any sort until the 2020s.

[Smallc]

So you can't demonstrate where said funds will come from

The procurement money in the DND budget. The same place that we buy other things from.

[Smallc]

That seems very optimistic. The F-35 process dragged on for over a decade. If the whole process is being scrapped and started again from scratch, it seems doubtful we'll be seeing any new planes of any sort until the 2020s.

I wouldn't doubt that we won't have planes arriving until about 2020. I'm talking about a competition between mature products. The F-35 would have been purchased, were it finished development. It wasn't and isn't. The current government is firmly committed to quickly starting a competition and to buying equipment faster. Nothing they have done this far points to that being in doubt. When that changes, so will my tune.

[bush_cheney2004]

And it replaced the F-14 anyway.

Not exactly....the F-18 E/F is not as capable for air combat. Canada even considered buying Iran's remaining production run after the revolution....but once again...TOO EXPENSIVE !

[Derek 2.0]

The procurement money in the DND budget. The same place that we buy other things from.

DND has an extra ~$16 billion sitting there? You're making things up, I'd gladly provide the Liberals own public four year spending plan if you like.......in it, there is no new money for fighters........

[Smallc]

Not exactly....the F-18 E/F is not as capable for air combat.

Not even close. It replaced the F-14 regardless, because the F-22 carrier was cancelled.

[bush_cheney2004]

I wouldn't doubt that we won't have planes arriving until about 2020. I'm talking about a competition between mature products. The F-35 would have been purchased, were it finished development. It wasn't and isn't. The current government is firmly committed to quickly starting a competition and to buying equipment faster. Nothing they have done this far points to that being in doubt. When that changes, so will my tune.

Good...then we shall have no more nonsense about 2017, eh ?

[bush_cheney2004]

Not even close. It replaced the F-14 regardless, because the F-22 carrier was cancelled.

No, the F-18 Super Hornet is a strike fighter first, that's why you want to buy them ! Bomb truck !

[Smallc]

DND has an extra ~$16 billion sitting there?

First of all, the procurement budget (as you already know) was never $16B, but rather $9B. That money is stretched out over 5 - 7 years and will be paid out in small sums over that time at intervals agreed to by the contractor and DND. It comes from - again - the procurement budget. It also includes purchases related to infrastructure, initial spares, weapons, etc. The rest of the $16B is for support and maintenance over the ~20 year life of the aircraft, and is not largely new money. The F-18s, after all, need to be maintained and supported over that time.

[Smallc]

Good...then we shall have no more nonsense about 2017, eh ?

That was my estimated of a selection. With dwindling orders, at that point, it shouldn't be hard to get a relatively quick turn around with aircraft arriving as early as 2019 - 2020.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Smallc

[Derek 2.0]

Good...then we shall have no more nonsense about 2017, eh ?

Or through fiscal year 2019/2020:

https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/09/The-Liberal-fiscal-plan-and-costing.pdf

Hence, the Liberals have no new money budgeted for new fighters within this mandate.