Smallc Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Under the current plan, Canada will select and begin procuring a fighter long before 2025 - probably within the next two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Under the current plan, Canada will select and begin procuring a fighter long before 2025 - probably within the next two years. Two years just to get a contract signed...production would be out several more years. Won't be able to butt in line the way Canada bought USAF C-17's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 As was this....Canada can't buy something that is no longer in production: Indeed.......As I've said, I'd be very surprised if anything is selected prior to the end of this mandate, likewise, if the Government does rush a selection, I'd expect the process to be further bogged down with court challenges.....look no further than the FWSAR saga, and the lawsuits that followed every change of requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Two years just to get a contract signed...production would be out several more years. Won't be able to butt in line the way Canada bought USAF C-17's. Nope.........US Government end-user technology transfer agreements themselves would take years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Indeed.......As I've said, I'd be very surprised if anything is selected prior to the end of this mandate, likewise, if the Government does rush a selection, I'd expect the process to be further bogged down with court challenges.....look no further than the FWSAR saga, and the lawsuits that followed every change of requirements. Agreed...there is no way in hell that Canada will commit to a $16 billion procurement for "CF-18 replacements" by Nov 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Two years just to get a contract signed...production would be out several more years. Won't be able to butt in line the way Canada bought USAF C-17's. If there was a contract signed for the F-18 in early 2017, they could be built in late 2017 to early 2018, the way things stand right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Agreed...there is no way in hell that Canada will commit to a $16 billion procurement for "CF-18 replacements" by Nov 2017. I would be surprised if it were prior to 2020......namely when the new Government has billions of dollars it doesn't have to spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 As I've said, I'd be very surprised if anything is selected prior to the end of this mandate, Given Trudeau's stubbornness to keep all of his promises thus far, I think you're pulling that out of nowhere. One thing is for sure, after shutting down the Secretariat, Harper wasn't planning anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Agreed...there is no way in hell that Canada will commit to a $16 billion procurement for "CF-18 replacements" by Nov 2017. There is absolutely no basis for that analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 If there was a contract signed for the F-18 in early 2017, they could be built in late 2017 to early 2018, the way things stand right now. Not when Boeing is building under 20 a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 If there was a contract signed for the F-18 in early 2017, they could be built in late 2017 to early 2018, the way things stand right now. Not likely....production rates are not high enough (yet), even for the F-35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Given Trudeau's stubbornness to keep all of his promises thus far, I think you're pulling that out of nowhere. One thing is for sure, after shutting down the Secretariat, Harper wasn't planning anything. No, he was planning to select the F-35 if reelected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Not likely....production rates are not high enough (yet), even for the F-35. Exactly, Boeing isn't going to increase the St Louis plant capacity for a small order on a dwindling line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Yeah, I'm going to need him to cite that. The website paints the Gripen in a very good light, but I'm not sure that it's all so good. Otherwise, why would they have pulled out? I'm not familiar with military procurement but in the software business, I know that companies will try to suss out the politics to see whether the competition is really open or whether there is a product all but picked. It could be that Saab read the political tea leaves and decided it was a waste of money. Complete guess but it's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 There is absolutely no basis for that analysis. Other than Trudeau's own fiscal spending plan...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Exactly, Boeing isn't going to increase the St Louis plant capacity for a small order on a dwindling line. Yep...long lead items would need to be ordered NOW....those subcontractors are shutting down. Plus Canada has a..ummm....reputation when it comes to big dollar military platform procurements, so the contract would be very long negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I'm not familiar with military procurement but in the software business, I know that companies will try to suss out the politics to see whether the competition is really open or whether there is a product all but picked. It could be that Saab read the political tea leaves and decided it was a waste of money. Complete guess but it's possible. Or more likely, at the time, BAE held majority ownership in Saab.......BAE of course is the tier one partner with Lockheed, the maker of the F-35.....in addition, upwards of ~30% of the Gripen is made in the United States, and the United States Government can and does veto the sale of it domestically produced products overseas........Or Saab realized their product doesn't meet our requirements.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Other than Trudeau's own fiscal spending plan...... You mean the one that has him spending the exact same amount on the military as the Conservaties, while effectively spending more by not allowing money to lapse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Yep...long lead items would need to be ordered NOW....those subcontractors are shutting down. Plus Canada has a..ummm....reputation when it comes to big dollar military platform procurements, so the contract would be very long negotiations. And yet Boeing made a big deal about this particular fact: http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/boeings-super-hornet-facility-to-be-kept-open-because-of-upgrade-work-future-sales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Not likely....production rates are not high enough (yet), even for the F-35. Exactly, Boeing isn't going to increase the St Louis plant capacity for a small order on a dwindling line. Is that why Boeing is planning on meeting a smaller order of 36 aircraft for the USN, and possibly 28 for Kuwait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Is that why Boeing continues to try to sell the jet and enters every competition they can worldwide, including providing requested information to Denmark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 You mean the one that has him spending the exact same amount on the military as the Conservaties, while effectively spending more by not allowing money to lapse? Yeah, with the budget plan for the next four years, sans any new money for fighters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Yeah, with the budget plan for the next four years, sans any new money for fighters. There is already fighter procurement money in the budget. We were supposed to be procuring them starting in w015 - 2017 anyway, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 And yet Boeing made a big deal about this particular fact: http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/boeings-super-hornet-facility-to-be-kept-open-because-of-upgrade-work-future-sales Yes..the Sales & Marketing team is still employed, but go count the empty parking lot spaces for production teams. The end is near without a major buy...soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 (edited) Is that why Boeing continues to try to sell the jet and enters every competition they can worldwide, including providing requested information to Denmark? So you are betting Canada's procurement of F-18 Super Hornets on what other nations may or may not do ? I thought this was a Canadian decision. The F-35 has more international sales than F-18's. Edited November 17, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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