F-35 Purchase Cancelled; CF-18 replacement process begins

[Derek 2.0]

An aircraft originally to be replaced by the F-35.

The F-111? Nope.

Yes, they have:

Australia committed to buying a total of 72 F-35 Joint Strike Fighters, down from a 2009 plan to purchase about 100 of what has become the Pentagon’s most-expensive weapons system.

http://www.bloomberg...strike-fighters

Moving on.

You should move on........to sources inclusive of their new Government defense review

[Derek 2.0]

Which were originally to be replaced by the F-35

Nope......not unless it flew off a ship or had extended range.

[Wilber]

There was talk of modifying their two new LHD's to operate F-35B's but it was shelved due to the cost of modifying the ships. Could still be a future possibility.

[Smallc]

The F-111? Nope.

The accelerated retirement of Australia’s 22 long-range F-111s in 2010 sharpened the timing debate, by creating a serious gap between the F-111’s retirement and the F-35’s likely arrival. Further delays to the F-35 program have created new worries that even the upgraded F/A-18AM/BM Hornet fleet won’t last long enough to allow smooth replacement.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/australia-to-buy-24-super-hornets-as-interim-gapfiller-to-jsf-02898/

[Wilber]

Even if they are buying 24 F-18F's to replace their 22 F-111's, their F-18 replacement is still the F-35. As we are only replacing F-18's, and have no plans to buy Growlers or anything else with their capability, the Australian Super Hornets are just a straw man in this discussion.

[Derek 2.0]

The accelerated retirement of Australia’s 22 long-range F-111s in 2010 sharpened the timing debate, by creating a serious gap between the F-111’s retirement and the F-35’s likely arrival. Further delays to the F-35 program have created new worries that even the upgraded F/A-18AM/BM Hornet fleet won’t last long enough to allow smooth replacement.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/australia-to-buy-24-super-hornets-as-interim-gapfiller-to-jsf-02898/

Ahhh, nope.......the F-35 was only ever an option to fill their long range strike requirement, even then, they would have procured the extended range naval version or the F-35B in conjunction with the Canberra class.

[Smallc]

Even if they are buying 24 F-18F's to replace their 22 F-111's, their F-18 replacement is still the F-35. As we are only replacing F-18's, and have no plans to buy Growlers or anything else with their capability, the Australian Super Hornets are just a straw man in this discussion.

It's not like every country in the world is buying the F-35. There are other options out there. The Rafale and Typhoon continue to be bought overseas, and it looks like that's the case for the Super Hornet as well now.

[Derek 2.0]

Even if they are buying 24 F-18F's to replace their 22 F-111's, their F-18 replacement is still the F-35. As we are only replacing F-18's, and have no plans to buy Growlers or anything else with their capability, the Australian Super Hornets are just a straw man in this discussion.

Exactly, the RAAF were offered (and preferred) a squadrons worth of B-1 bombers from the Americans, but turned down the option with the cost of operating them........Their Super Hornets now will likely be replaced (per their defense review) with sub launched cruise missiles and F-35Bs operated off their LHDs.........

But, as you said, this is a strawman, as the front line tactical aircraft of the RAAF will be the F-35A.

[Wilber]

It's not like every country in the world is buying the F-35. There are other options out there. The Rafale and Typhoon continue to be bought overseas, and it looks like that's the case for the Super Hornet as well now.

Eric Trappier, Dassault Chairman

The potential clients were often countries that avoided ordering a US fighter, he said on the sidelines of the press conference.

Not much of a reason to select an aircraft but enough for some Canadians I am sure.

[Smallc]

Eric Trappier, Dassault Chairman

Not much of a reason to select an aircraft but enough for some Canadians I am sure.

If it's good enough for France....

[Derek 2.0]

Eric Trappier, Dassault Chairman

Not much of a reason to select an aircraft but enough for some Canadians I am sure.

And in those cases where it has been selected, the Americans were not prepared to offer the sale of the F-35.

[Derek 2.0]

If it's good enough for France....

Its not, its a corporate welfare program for the French aerospace industry.......the French navy (in the 80s) wanted the Hornet.

[Smallc]

Its not, its a corporate welfare program for the French aerospace industry

Well, there a good chance we might contribute.

[Derek 2.0]

Well, there a good chance we might contribute.

Without a doubt, and will be operating it decades after the French have retired it.

[Big Guy]

Russia. Rogue airliners. Unforeseen circumstances. We need jets. We don't really need the F-35.

If it is any of those then the USA will be on it in minutes. Then they will decide what has to be done and tell us where we are to deploy our aircraft in conjunction with them.

Can you recall any conflict in which Canada has participated in the last 60 years in which the USA was not involved? And perhaps one where we did not play second fiddle to America?

I do not know why we waste our money on equipment that will be under the control of the old USA? They want to start their "excursions" around the world then let them use their own armaments.

[Smallc]

Without a doubt, and will be operating it decades after the French have retired it.

That second part seems unlikely, given that they'll receive 10 this year and have dozens more on order.

[Smallc]

If it is any of those then the USA will be on it in minutes. Then they will decide what has to be done and tell us where we are to deploy our aircraft in conjunction with them.

I'd rather be responsible for our own security.

Can you recall any conflict in which Canada has participated in the last 60 years in which the USA was not involved? And perhaps one where we did not play second fiddle to America?

Is that relevant somehow?

I do not know why we waste our money on equipment that will be under the control of the old USA? They want to start their "excursions" around the world then let them use their own armaments.

Iraq 2003 should prove that we're not under anyone's control.

[Derek 2.0]

That second part seems unlikely, given that they'll receive 10 this year and have dozens more on order.

Perhaps unlikely to you, but your baseless assumption runs counter to the actual pan-European program(s) to replace the various fleets of Eurofighters, Rafales and Gripens in the early 2030s with the stealth spawn of Taranis and nEUROn, be it manned, unmanned or optionally manned.......

[Smallc]

Perhaps unlikely to you, but your baseless assumption runs counter to the actual pan-European program(s) to replace the various fleets of Eurofighters, Rafales and Gripens in the early 2030s

Considering how long the current programs took (including the ongoing saga of the F-35) and the fact that the new aircraft still haven't completely replaced the ones they were designed to...don't hold your breath.

[Big Guy]

I'd rather be responsible for our own security.

Is that relevant somehow?

Iraq 2003 should prove that we're not under anyone's control.

We will never be responsible for our own security. Our security is American security and they would not allow it. What did Iraq 2003 have to do with our security?

[Derek 2.0]

Considering how long the current programs took (including the ongoing saga of the F-35) and the fact that the new aircraft still haven't completely replaced the ones they were designed to...don't hold your breath.

Huh? Both the joint French-European and British programs have been ongoing for more than a decade, which in the 2030s, will equate to the same timeline as both the development of the Rafale, Eurofighter and Gripen. With that, as the current users are starting to retire their Rafales and Eurofighters, Canada will be looking for a mid-life upgrade of an aircraft with its roots in the 70s and 80s.

[ReeferMadness]

Here's a website called Gripen for Canada. It recommends the Gripen on the basis of range, low operating cost and higher speed. Thoughts?

[Smallc]

Huh? Both the joint French-European and British programs have been ongoing for more than a decade, which in the 2030s, will equate to the same timeline as both the development of the Rafale, Eurofighter and Gripen. With that, as the current users are starting to retire their Rafales and Eurofighters, Canada will be looking for a mid-life upgrade of an aircraft with its roots in the 70s and 80s.

Like I said, they're still operating the last model, before these jets...in the case of France, the model before that also. There's not much danger of any of the 3 jets being totally out of anyone's inventory before 2040 at the earliest, probably longer.

[Smallc]

Here's a website called Gripen for Canada. It recommends the Gripen on the basis of range, low operating cost and higher speed. Thoughts?

The new model is an unproven aircraft. That worries me. I'm sure it would do fine, but probably not quite as well as the other aircraft. On balance, it seems most likely that Boeing will get the contract.

[Wilber]

If it is any of those then the USA will be on it in minutes. Then they will decide what has to be done and tell us where we are to deploy our aircraft in conjunction with them.

Where from? The US no longer has any fighters based in the eastern arctic.