F-35 Purchase Cancelled; CF-18 replacement process begins

[On Guard for Thee]

What plan have they offered, and who would they partner with? Name names.....offer an opinion/guess of your own.

Here's the plan they are offering:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/f-35-s-french-rival-pitches-canadianized-fighter-jet-1.2577234

[waldo]

What plan have they offered, and who would they partner with? Name names.....offer an opinion/guess of your own.

what a stoopid point of questioning! The point is made that Dassault will help India establish resident manufacturing for 108 Rafale's to be manufactured in India; that full technology transfer is included... comment is subsequently offered that, appparently, per media updates, Dassault is including the same type of technology transfer and resident manufacturing as a part of it's offer to Canada. This clearly rattles you for some reason! Big time.

in any case, are you privy to the complete submissions, including meetings, verbal commitments, etc? All of this is, of course, moot unless Harper Conservatives actually opt for a full open competition. I expect, per norm, if that were to actually happen... and a short list was forthcoming... and the Rafale was one of those short-listed, I guess you would see "the plan" come forward that you're so clamoring for!

[Derek 2.0]

Here's the plan they are offering:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/f-35-s-french-rival-pitches-canadianized-fighter-jet-1.2577234

I'll ask the same question........what companies will the French partner with to build engines, weapons, avionics and the aircraft itself?

[waldo]

Here's the plan they are offering:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/f-35-s-french-rival-pitches-canadianized-fighter-jet-1.2577234

bingo!

Robins, the Dassault VP, added that "we are not only limiting this offer to the Rafale."

Robins said that Dassault's partnerships with hundreds of other French companies will allow it to include Canadian industry in other high-tech projects — in space, unmanned drones and avionics. This, he said, would be "a guarantee of activity amounting at least to the equivalent of the procurement budget for the aircraft — and going much further later on."

[Derek 2.0]

what a stoopid point of questioning! The point is made that Dassault will help India establish resident manufacturing for 108 Rafale's to be manufactured in India; that full technology transfer is included... comment is subsequently offered that, appparently, per media updates, Dassault is including the same type of technology transfer and resident manufacturing as a part of it's offer to Canada. This clearly rattles you for some reason! Big time.

India already produces their own domestic fighters.........Canada does not.

in any case, are you privy to the complete submissions, including meetings, verbal commitments, etc? All of this is, of course, moot unless Harper Conservatives actually opt for a full open competition. I expect, per norm, if that were to actually happen... and a short list was forthcoming... and the Rafale was one of those short-listed, I guess you would see "the plan" come forward that you're so clamoring for!

I'm not rattled at all of the prospects of the RCAF flying the Rafale.........there is a reason why Canada has never operated a French fighter.......outside of a handful of Falcon biz-jets, I can't think of any French aircraft being used by the RCAF in its postwar history.

[On Guard for Thee]

I'll ask the same question........what companies will the French partner with to build engines, weapons, avionics and the aircraft itself?

Read the article.

[Derek 2.0]

Read the article.

I did........Who are the prospective partners within Canadian industry that can/could produce a fighter within Canada?

[waldo]

I'm not rattled at all of the prospects of the RCAF flying the Rafale.........there is a reason why Canada has never operated a French fighter.......

the reason? Do tell, do tell!

[Derek 2.0]

the reason? Do tell, do tell!

The lacking of quality and performance when contrasted with past British, domestically produced and American aircraft, coupled with lack of access to North American supply chains and integration with our largest defense partner……….

The use of our past Falcons and our current Airbus/Polaris (just remembered those) transport/tankers were only made possible by synergies with civil aviation supply chains. (edit to add) and both aircraft fleets were produced in France.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Derek 2.0

[waldo]

integration with our largest defense partner……….

really?

The Rafale's backers dismiss concerns that a French plane will not work well with U.S. forces, saying it did just that in both Afghanistan and Libya. They add that its attachment points for bombs and missiles are built to NATO standards.

[On Guard for Thee]

India already produces their own domestic fighters.........Canada does not.

I'm not rattled at all of the prospects of the RCAF flying the Rafale.........there is a reason why Canada has never operated a French fighter.......outside of a handful of Falcon biz-jets, I can't think of any French aircraft being used by the RCAF in its postwar history.

Um, ever seen what Harper rides around in?

[waldo]

The lacking of quality and performance

please sir, we're not talking about the F-35 here... this was about French fighters

[Derek 2.0]

really?

What synergies does operating ~65 Rafales' offer when contrasted with an American type........and not mentioned, though the attachment points are STANAG, the Rafale uses French weapons, not our current inventory of American weapons……..we would either have to replace our current inventory with French weapons or have American weapons integrated…..the same problem, but to a lesser degree, with the Eurofighter.

[Derek 2.0]

please sir, we're not talking about the F-35 here... this was about French fighters

How many first world nations are lining up to purchase both types?

[waldo]

What synergies does operating ~65 Rafales' offer when contrasted with an American type........and not mentioned, though the attachment points are STANAG, the Rafale uses French weapons, not our current inventory of American weapons……..we would either have to replace our current inventory with French weapons or have American weapons integrated…..the same problem, but to a lesser degree, with the Eurofighter.

what "synergies" does your vaunted F-35 offer?

which weapons are you specifically concerned about... and just how big is such an "inventory"?

The Rafale As Canada’s Next Fighter – Part 1

The Rafale As Canada’s Next Fighter – Part 2

[waldo]

How many first world nations are lining up to purchase both types?

"lining up"... how many 1st world nations have actually signed contracts and exchanged money for the F-35... and in that regard, exactly how many planes have been purchased to-date?

[Derek 2.0]

what "synergies" does your vaunted F-35 offer?

It will be operated by our partner in NORAD, and most of our NATO allies.

which weapons are you specifically concerned about... and just how big is such an "inventory"?

The entire inventory of the RCAF.........from your link:

Rafale already use several several air-to-ground US-made weapons (GBU 12, 24, 49, as well as unguided weapons). More importantly, its weapon bus is fully compliant with NATO Stanag 3910/1553.

Therefore, there is no technical hurdle to integrate any NATO weaponry. Furthermore, during operation “Harmattan” in Libya (Canada called it Operation Mobile – later Operation Enduring Freedom under NATO), French armed forces used the Raytheon wireless system to integrate GBU 49s on their Rafale.

No technical hurdle, just cost......As I said, we would have to pay to integrate our entire inventory or replace it with French weapons…..This is not the case with the F-35 (or the Super Hornet)..........

[Derek 2.0]

"lining up"... how many 1st world nations have actually signed contracts and exchanged money for the F-35... and in that regard, exactly how many planes have been purchased to-date?

How many nations have selected the Rafale?

[Army Guy]

According to DND's experts the F-35 is clearly the chioce for the new fighter replacement program and the independent review community has spent 14 months investagating to see if there was any bias in that decission and there was none. everything was done by proceedures laided out by the government and the treasury Dept...Looks like DND did this one right....but this not change the decision to take DND out of the procurement process.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/oversight-panel-on-cf-18-replacement-has-its-say-and-here-it-is#

[Derek 2.0]

According to DND's experts the F-35 is clearly the chioce for the new fighter replacement program and the independent review community has spent 14 months investagating to see if there was any bias in that decission and there was none. everything was done by proceedures laided out by the government and the treasury Dept...Looks like DND did this one right....but this not change the decision to take DND out of the procurement process.

Exactly......DND doesn't have to win an election.

[GostHacked]

Any lower specs on the F-35, and I would have to consider telling the DoD to purchase something from Lada.

[Smallc]

Where are these lower specs exactly?

[waldo]

Where are these lower specs exactly?

what? You haven't finished your 'waldo task'... and now you're asking a question!!!

as follows, a reference to 2 separate occurrences of lowered F-35 specifications... of course, as I've detailed earlier in this thread, there are others previously highlighted in U.S. GAO reports... more 'onesy-twosy' type lowerings to allow the the F-35 to jump over particular operational testing hurdles. You know... operational testing results... that focus of your waldo task assignment you appear to be ignoring! Ignoring while you keep on chirping!

Pentagon Downgrades Specs for Its Premier Stealth Jet — Again

For the second time in a year, the Pentagon has eased the performance requirements of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF). The reduced specs — including a slower acceleration and turning rate — lower the bar for the troubled trillion-dollar JSF program, allowing it to proceed toward full-rate production despite ongoing problems with the plane’s complex design. Under the old specs, the stealth fighter, due to enter service in 2018 or 2019, probably wouldn’t pass its Pentagon-mandated final exams.

[waldo]

How many nations have selected the Rafale?

such a sad deflection! You were asked a simple question... albeit a most inconvenient question, for you. Again, in regards to your claim that partner nations are, as you say, "lining up"... simply answer as to, "how many 1st world nations have actually signed contracts and exchanged money for the F-35... and in that regard, exactly how many planes have been purchased to-date?"

[Derek 2.0]

"how many 1st world nations have actually signed contracts and exchanged money for the F-35... and in that regard, exactly how many planes have been purchased to-date?"

Currently to-date? Far more 1st world nations have purchased the F-35, than Rafale.