Bag Ban Gets Killed in Toronto

[Boges]

Thank Almighty Creator.

Rob Ford got one win this week at least.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1294392--council-kills-plastic-bag-ban

Faced with lawsuits from the plastics industry, Toronto city council Wednesday voted 38-7 to forget about banning plastic shopping bags Jan. 1 as planned.

At the behest of Mayor Rob Ford, council earlier scrapped a 5-cent bag fee which supporters say had been working to cut the number of bags.

With the latest move, there are no restrictions on the deployment of the bags, which detractors say befoul the environment.

“It’s just a sad day,” said Councillor Michelle Berardinetti. “Without a bag fee or a ban – with either one not in place – people will use those bags and it’s unfortunate for the environment.”

I didn't want this ridiculous idea of not allowing people to be given a bag to carry the sh!t they just bought out of the store to spread.

Most retailers already charge like 5 cent for plastic bags, they're recyclable, they're re-usable and paper bags are less environmentally friendly than they are. I'm glad Toronto finally came to its senses.

[Guest Peeves]

Thank Almighty Creator.

Rob Ford got one win this week at least.

http://www.thestar.c...plastic-bag-ban

I didn't want this ridiculous idea of not allowing people to be given a bag to carry the sh!t they just bought out of the store to spread.

Most retailers already charge like 5 cent for plastic bags, they're recyclable, they're re-usable and paper bags are less environmentally friendly than they are. I'm glad Toronto finally came to its senses.

I agree. Now ban bottled water.

[bush_cheney2004]

This was a lead CBC News story this morning, and I laughed my ass off after realizing that not only was there a 5 cent plastic bag tax, but the retailers who implemented the tax didn't have to give the money to anybody but themselves. EnviroMentalists need to think up more creative ways to enrage consumers.

[login]

Thank Almighty Creator.

Rob Ford got one win this week at least.

http://www.thestar.c...plastic-bag-ban

I didn't want this ridiculous idea of not allowing people to be given a bag to carry the sh!t they just bought out of the store to spread.

Most retailers already charge like 5 cent for plastic bags, they're recyclable, they're re-usable and paper bags are less environmentally friendly than they are. I'm glad Toronto finally came to its senses.

most plastic bags are a waste. I don't like them. But they are useful some times. I don't support stifling business but the government should make proactive messures for eco bags. Like giving $10 a year tax rebate to buy a reusable hemp shoping bag, or other durable fabric such as cordura etc.. or one time $50 rebate, with the city selling the bags. $50 off property taxes to buy a bag that the city sells. "Keep Toronto Clean" or I love GREEN in TORONTO, etc.. this little measure will pay for itself in no time.

The governments just not being proactive, and is attacking business instead of out competing them with public subsidies for change in public habits.

Edited November 29, 2012 by login

[Bonam]

This was a lead CBC News story this morning, and I laughed my ass off after realizing that not only was there a 5 cent plastic bag tax, but the retailers who implemented the tax didn't have to give the money to anybody but themselves. EnviroMentalists need to think up more creative ways to enrage consumers.

Yes it's pretty ridiculous. They have a similar plastic bag ban here in Seattle. Of course, it only backfires at them. The stores now give out paper bags that don't have any handles. Before, I used to walk to the grocery store on the way home from work and bring my purchases back home in the convenient plastic bags, about an 8 block walk. But since you can't carry the paper bags by hand conveniently, I now drive to the store instead, So they saved a few plastic bags but added car emissions and congestion.

Same goes with workplace initiatives to reduce waste by getting rid of water coolers. Apparently some environmentalists got it in their hands that the paper cups are a big source of paper waste at water coolers, and that therefore we should get rid of water coolers. Well, people like me used to just bring a reusable metal water bottle to work and fill it from the cooler. Now since the cooler isn't there, I have to go buy bottled water instead. A few paper cups saved, but more plastic water bottles used.

Environmentalists rarely have the foresight to think about the consequences of their actions when trying to decree the tiny details of people's lives like what kinds of bags or cups they should use. Frankly, such intrusions by government into personal choices are wholly inappropriate even if they didn't backfire in the above-mentioned ways.

[betsy]

Thank Almighty Creator.

Rob Ford got one win this week at least.

http://www.thestar.c...plastic-bag-ban

I didn't want this ridiculous idea of not allowing people to be given a bag to carry the sh!t they just bought out of the store to spread.

Most retailers already charge like 5 cent for plastic bags, they're recyclable, they're re-usable and paper bags are less environmentally friendly than they are. I'm glad Toronto finally came to its senses.

Small comfort for now. These lunatic environmentalists will find something else to ban!

Edited December 19, 2012 by betsy

[BubberMiley]

I agree. One would have to be insane to have any interest in keeping the earth in any kind of livable state for future generations.

[Bonam]

I agree. One would have to be insane to have any interest in keeping the earth in any kind of livable state for future generations.

You don't seem to get it. Wanting to preserve the Earth's environment is all well and good. Thinking that you can do this by decreeing the tiny minutiae of people's lives, such as what kind of bags they can use, is the insanity.

[Boges]

I think he's just responding to Betsy's post.

Banning plastic bags do little to save the planet. I don't mind a 5 cent cost (which is a gigantic markup) per bag so people don't just think to throw them away after one use. I don't know who does that though.

They're also recyclable. At my local Wal-Mart they actually bag your groceries for you, so it's a pain to hand them canvas bags or other plastic bags, so you actually get a lot of them. There's a box in front of the store where you can put excess bags in for recycling.

[Bonam]

Banning plastic bags do little to save the planet. I don't mind a 5 cent cost (which is a gigantic markup) per bag so people don't just think to throw them away after one use. I don't know who does that though.

I specifically go and throw out my plastic bags and other plastic garbage in the local lake and cackle evilly as I watch the local fish and birds choke on it, get entangled in it, or otherwise be troubled/injured/killed by it.

[betsy]

I think he's just responding to Betsy's post.

And I do cite Bonam's reply as a ditto to Bubber's.

I recycle bags! Use them for garbage bags....so I don't have to buy those "kitchen bags!" I see dog-walkers use them for poop bags, too.

Anyway, their plan to save the panet by banning bags may be well and good....but did you see how filthy some of those bags are (that were marketed so you don't have to keep using plastic bags) that people keep re-using? How many really wash off spilled stuffs in those bags that they bring in and out of homes? Where do those bags sit at home when not in used? Do you know what's in those homes? We're talking food here! Health/Sanitation-wise, how does that impact us in the long run?

I noticed too that there's lesser people using those said bags anymore - unlike when they first got introduced, and you feel the pressure then that it seems you're a two-headed monster when you request for a plastic bag!

Not to say jobs lost from plastic bags manufacturers if that useless bag ban really got into effect.

Edited January 1, 2013 by betsy

[Guest Manny]

What I don't get is that they charge people 5 cents a bag. Why not charge 5 cents, yes, but give out paper bags. Or at least some kind of bag that's not a problem in the landfill. The biodegradable plastics only disintegrate into plastic powder, very small grains but its still plastic. It doesn't degrade into organics.

If I have to pay money for each bag, might as well make it something worth while. People need the bags. They don't necessarily need to be made of PLASTIC.

[Boges]

I've heard it say that Paper bag production is actually worse for the environment. People don't just throw away plastic bags en masse after using them either.

You get paper bags at the LCBO, I use them when I'm cutting up onions or garlic to put in the green bin because they stink up the kitchen otherwise, but they aren't all that sturdy. I couldn't use them as a plastic bag alternative.

I was looking to buy plastic garbage bags for the Christmas season since your waste production is exponentially increased. Minimum price for a box was $6!!!!! I just re-used shopping bags. WIN!

[Guest Manny]

Once upon a time, all stores had only paper bags to offer for grocery bags. I remember the day when they all switched to plastic. There was controversy that if we do that, it will become a problem for the landfill. Well here we are, super geniuses.

[Boges]

Plastic bags are more durable. Stores used to have people actually bag your groceries too. I was in the US recently and asked if they charged for bags, the lady looked at my like I was speaking french. Oh and they had a girl bagging groceries too. Crazy place that United States.

[Eyrie]

Personally, I think the environmentalists are merely looking to garner public attention by nit-picking on minor issues.

[Bryan]

Plastic bags are far more environmentally friendly. They can be (and are) reused for so many other purposes. Most of my plastic grocery bags get reused at least twice if not more. With paper bags, you're lucky if they even make it home the first time intact.

If stores did not give out any bags with purchases, it would not decrease the use of plastic bags anyway. A tear-proof, water-proof bag is still a staple that people need everyday. All a bag ban in stores would mean is now people would have to buy them. No change in the usage, the only change is the expense to the consumer.

[The_Squid]

I don't get why people don't just use cloth grocery bags.

[Bonam]

I don't get why people don't just use cloth grocery bags.

Because you have to bring them with you. If you are driving to the store from home, that's all well and good. But what about if you are stopping by the store on your walk home from work? People thinking up these policies clearly live in suburbia and have no conception of life in walkable urban neighborhoods.

[Guest Manny]

I don't accept that plastic is greener than paper. Plastic has to be looked at from the production of oil right through to final processing and making of the bags. Thereafter, plastic collects in landfills and does not decompose to organic materials. Some landfills have a "lake" of toxic waste developing beneath them, which scientists believe is coming from the degradation of plastic and electronic waste. PVC plastics, metals from batteries etc.

Plastic waste is also the largest constituent in the great "trash zone" located underwater in the northern Pacific Ocean. There is evidence that after plastic dissolves into water, it eventually returns into its pre-molded, pelletized shape in the form of plastic granules. They are however a mix of plastic and toxic waste products absorbed by the plastic.

Both paper and plastic create waste when they are recycled as well.

Question is what do you want to put into the environment. Man made chemical products, or natural products. So even if it costs us a ittle more, lets go with the natural products. Preserving for the sake of future generations.

[The_Squid]

Because you have to bring them with you. If you are driving to the store from home, that's all well and good. But what about if you are stopping by the store on your walk home from work? People thinking up these policies clearly live in suburbia and have no conception of life in walkable urban neighborhoods.

You are carrying your plastic bags full of groceries while walking home? Do you carry a brief case? An attaché? How hard is it to carry a little folding cloth bag? How come pinko lefty greenies can do it, but you can't?

Pockets?

Edited January 3, 2013 by The_Squid

[Bonam]

You are carrying your plastic bags full of groceries while walking home?

Yep, it's 5 blocks from the store to home.

Do you carry a brief case? An attaché?

No.

How hard is it to carry a little folding cloth bag?

You have to know in advance and remember in the morning that you are planning to shop that day, bring the bag to work in the morning, keep it there all day, and then remember to take it with you when you leave work to go home. In other words, even with best intentions, you may often end up at the store without your cloth bag.

Now yes, I'm sure you can retort by saying "you should plan ahead", or "how hard is it to remember?" or something similar. But the reality is going grocery shopping is a mundane everyday task, not at the front of people's minds, and convenience matters.

How come pinko lefty greenies can do it, but you can't?

I'm guessing there might be a few other things that "pinko lefty greenies" do that I'd rather not, too.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Bonam

[The_Squid]

Haha. Forgetful and lazy.... Got it!

[Guest Manny]

Haha. Forgetful and lazy.... Got it!

That's reportable. Seems you need to work on your forum behaviour. Just like that other guy, msj

[Bonam]

Haha. Forgetful and lazy.... Got it!

Congrats on completely missing the point