Meaning of Christmas becoming redundant?

[Sleipnir]

LOL, you're so right! Every year the same threads appear at the same time, about the same things.

About the comparison between Norse and Christian versions of celebrating the 25th of December?

[The_Squid]

And how exactly did Jesus gave us a chance at eternal life?

Please don't encourage another sermon. If you want to know how to be saved, PM Betsy. I'm sure she will give you detailed instructions.

[Sleipnir]

Please don't encourage another sermon. If you want to know how to be saved, PM Betsy. I'm sure she will give you detailed instructions.

I wouldn't pm a * for information, but thanks for the warning - I'll change that original post.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Sleipnir

[Guest American Woman]

I wouldn't pm a troll for information, but thanks for the warning - I'll change that original post.

Betsy has religious beliefs - which she speaks of, and people respond to - in like, and in spades, from what I can see. How does that make her a troll?

[GostHacked]

Christmas just wouldn't be Christmas without the annual "Christmas is meaningless/Christmas is simply materialistic/Christmas is nothing but stress" thread/posts - basically from non-believers. My suggestion would be to either enjoy the season as a holiday - or ignore it. Leave the meaningfulness of it to the believers. Seems to me that should be simple enough to do. Yet every year we have the non-believers pushing their objections to the association of the Christian aspect, which is really what it's all about, as they then claim that Christmas has become nothing but commercialism.

You don't think Christmas has become commercialized? It's because of the insane commercialization that has driven me from celebrating Christmas. The malls play the music a month or so early, just to get you in the festive mood of buying for others. They want you to give, but they all want you to give from their stores. I have not had cable TV in a couple years now, so I am not exposed to the plethora of christmas commercials on the TV. If it is not so commercialized, why are there so many commercials on it?

The target group is mostly young people and children. Ask what the meaning of it all is from a child and then an adult. Then you might start to see how commercialized it really is. I mean this is only something I noticed 20+ years ago.

I dare say it hasn't lost its meaning to those who believe - and the rest of the crowd looking for "meaning," criticizing the lack of religious association that the atheists have pushed so hard to eliminate, is just, well, amusing.

The real meaning is to be with friends and family and share each others company and just be together. Even this Atheist knows and understands that. I don't need to be religious to understand the true meaning of Christmas.

All this commercialization makes Baby Jesus cry .. then we can get into the commercialization of Easter!!!!!! Where are those Cadbury eggs?

[Guest American Woman]

All this commercialization makes Baby Jesus cry .. then we can get into the commercialization of Easter!!!!!! Where are those Cadbury eggs?

And all this sort of ignorance makes American Woman roll her eyes.....

[Guest]

Christmas is simply an awful time of year. We are bombarded with inane commercials, forced to listen to execrable music, expected to express unfelt sentiments and stuffed with food and drink we inevitably regret consuming.

Not only that, we freeze our fingers and other, more sensitive bits off putting up lights and cutting down trees when the planet is experiencing catastrophic climate change.

[Sleipnir]

.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Sleipnir

[Guest American Woman]

Check the bible and Darwin thread for her style of 'debating'

Oh, I'm aware of her "style" - which is why I pointed out that many respond "in like," and it's true. I simply avoid said "debates" and wonder why anyone who thinks a poster is a "troll" wouldn't do likewise. I didn't mean to single you out - there are several here who throw out the "troll" accusation to just about anyone they don't agree with, and while I disagree with betsy's views and style, I don't think she's a troll - I think her beliefs are genuine to her. I also think her beliefs* are often mocked by a few on the board, and I don't see that as any different from her "style."

Anyway, as I said, I didn't mean to single you out.

Edited to add: not just her beliefs, religious beliefs in general - but I believe some go out of their way to personally mock her and/or her beliefs.

Edited December 1, 2012 by American Woman

[The_Squid]

And all this sort of ignorance makes American Woman roll her eyes.....

I don't think it's ignorant to point out the rampant commercialism that is Xmas.... It's pretty evident that the consumerism is ramped up to new levels at Xmas.

[Guest American Woman]

I don't think it's ignorant to point out the rampant commercialism that is Xmas.... It's pretty evident that the consumerism is ramped up to new levels at Xmas.

I think it's ignorant is to say that it "makes Baby Jesus cry," which is what I was saying - especially when it's apparent that the person making the comment doesn't even believe in Jesus. It's part of the mocking of religious beliefs that I was referring to in my previous post, and it comes across as ignorant and inflammatory.

I think the "ramped up consumerism" is due, at least in part, to the secularization which is, in part, being forced on society regarding Christmas - or at least the public aspect of it. I also think it's rather hypocritical to criticize the commercial aspect of it when one just looks upon it as a secular celebration - that one chooses to participate in. Take away the religious, and one is left with the commercial aspect - wouldn't you agree?

Personally, the commercialism doesn't bother me - it's to be expected in a capitalist country/economy - as nothing is being forced on any of us by it. If it weren't effective, it wouldn't be still be going on - and it's only effective because of the population's actions/reactions (which is well within in our control).

Edited December 1, 2012 by American Woman

[Guest]

It's December 01 and "It's a Wonderful Life" has already been on the telly.

Colonel Kurtz heard about it...

[Topaz]

IF you have the money, and grandkids or kids and want to do Christmas then do Christmas but there are people in North America who don't have jobs and little money coming and what do they tell their kids , when Santa doesn't come because dad and mon don't have the money. The kid will feel that Santa doesn't care for them and its become a very emotional time. It bad enough for some kids to find out Sanata doesn't rally exists and may not get over the fact that parents do lie. Christmas lately is nothing like it was 20 years, 30 years ago. On TV, one had all the commericals of toys, had the Xmas cartoons , had the Xmas specials like the Birth of Christ but now it all about shopping. Personally, our kids are well unto their 30's and no gr kids, so Xmas is different for us, we don't buy gifts, but share a day together over a good Xmas meal. I refuse to go into debt and I don't want my kids to do that either, so very one is happy just being together.

[Shady]

I think it's ignorant is to say that it "makes Baby Jesus cry," which is what I was saying - especially when it's apparent that the person making the comment doesn't even believe in Jesus. It's part of the mocking of religious beliefs that I was referring to in my previous post, and it comes across as ignorant and inflammatory.

I think the "ramped up consumerism" is due, at least in part, to the secularization which is, in part, being forced on society regarding Christmas - or at least the public aspect of it. I also think it's rather hypocritical to criticize the commercial aspect of it when one just looks upon it as a secular celebration - that one chooses to participate in. Take away the religious, and one is left with the commercial aspect - wouldn't you agree?

Personally, the commercialism doesn't bother me - it's to be expected in a capitalist country/economy - as nothing is being forced on any of us by it. If it weren't effective, it wouldn't be still be going on - and it's only effective because of the population's actions/reactions (which is well within in our control).

Very well said! I think some people in this forum have Christmas envy.

[GostHacked]

Christmas has been commercialized long before many of you had even heard the term 'secularism'.

[Guest]

Very well said! I think some people in this forum have Christmas envy.

It's not envy. It's hatred.

[dre]

[cybercoma]

dre, that was so awesome.

[cybercoma]

His display this year is even more amazing:

[betsy]

That statement assumes that the reader shares the same faith, obviously. There's no reasoning behind this, just faith.

That statement was given by a Christian (me), who believes that God had sent His only begotten Son, Jesus, to save mankind, to give us all a chance at eternal life. I am not stating that everyone will have an eternal life. I am saying, we've been given that chance.....and us Christians celebrate that, "The Lord has come." To fuifill it. To me, it's a celebration of thanksgiving (just like Easter Sunday)! All the Christian holidays - to me - is all about thanksgiving!

The invitation is open to mankind. To everyone. A choice of life or death.

Whether the reader shares the same faith or not doesn't make any difference. Whether the reader believes the same or not, is of no consequence. He was born man, as the Saviour. To show us the way, to die for everyone....to give us that chance. I am explaining the meaning of Christmas as a Christian.

You're right. I am simply stating MY FAITH - MY belief.

Edited December 2, 2012 by betsy

[cybercoma]

betsy, are you Calvinist?

[betsy]

Please don't encourage another sermon. If you want to know how to be saved, PM Betsy. I'm sure she will give you detailed instructions.

You tell him, Squid! Sleipnir does go off from his own topic!

He brings in Christianity in his OP:

Pope benedict admits, from the bible, that Jesus was not born on December 25th or in Nazareth. He went on to say that Jesus was not born in a manger surrounded by angels or cattle.

It was proposed that the Dec 25th was chosen to coincided with the pagan holiday of Yule, with no other significant meaning. Some scholar placed Jesus's birth date in March 25th or even May 30th.

As a quote from an article:

http://people.howstu.../christmas4.htm

But by the early fourth century, Church leaders decided they needed a Christian alternative to rival popular solstice celebrations. They chose December 25th as the date of Christ's birth and held the first recorded Feast of the Nativity in Rome in A.D. 336. Whether they did so intentionally or not, Church leaders directly challenged a fellow up-start religion by placing the nativity on December 25th. The Cult of Mithras celebrated the birth of their infant god of light on the very same day.

So my thought is, why do we still celebrate something that never happened on December 25th? It's almost like a phantom holiday. December 25th, as it seems more appropriate, should be a celebration of the original meaning - paganism.

His title is a question about Christmas becoming redundant. And of course, since he cited a Christian article for his OP....it's only appropriate that Christian point of view should also be given!

And my view is:

NO, Sleipnir. TO A CHRISTIAN, THE MEANING OF CHRISTMAS IS NOT "REDUNDANT" SINCE TO US CHRISTIANS, IT IS A CELEBRATION COMEMORATING THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH TO FULFILL THE PROMISE!

The Christian celebration is not all that shallow - it has a definite meaning.

It's not about a one-week partying, and endless shopping sprees, weight loss crash dieting to fit into that dress or suit, and maximized credit cards - most of which you'll have to pay for, face and deal with in FEBRUARY, on top of the winter blues!

It goes way, way, way deeper than that. And the joy is real! Uplifting! A Non-depressant!

May I emhasize that I speak as a believer. Golly, you guys are so touchy and sensitive - like a vampire to a sniff of garlic!

Edited December 2, 2012 by betsy

[betsy]

Sleipnir:

So my thought is, why do we still celebrate something that never happened on December 25th? It's almost like a phantom holiday. December 25th, as it seems more appropriate, should be a celebration of the original meaning - paganism.

Anyway, your question is odd.

If you are a non-believer, why do you say, "WE?"

Why do you celebrate the birth of Christ? Why do you even utter that word, "Christmas?"

Didn't you already bring it back to paganism? Maybe you should dance in front of the tree, or whatever it is that pagans do.

Anyway.....aren't you supposed to simply celebrate the "HOLIDAYS?"

Edited December 2, 2012 by betsy

[betsy]

deleted.

Edited December 2, 2012 by betsy

[Shady]

It's not envy. It's hatred.

In most cases it's just envy. Kinda like penis envy.