Hamas is neither moral, ethical nor civilised.

[Guest Peeves]

After leaving the Gaza strip of it's own accord, the Arabs elected a government of what many countries have defined as a 'Terrorist Org."

(Israel, the United States, Canada, the European Union, and Japan classify Hamas as a terrorist organization,)

Hamas has fired "In 2012, there’s barely been a week when at least a handful of rockets haven’t been fired from Gaza into Israel. Every month or so there is an escalation, like during one six-day period in June when 162 rockets landed in Israel. “No government would tolerate a situation where nearly a fifth of its people live under a constant barrage of rockets and missile fire,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told the foreign media on Thursday as he authorized more intensive strikes in Gaza."

In the morning during the hour Israeli children are leaving for school usually around 35 rockets are fired at them . In the afternoon when returning, another 35 or so are fired at them. The timing daily cannot be coincidental.

Only barbarians -cowards and uncivilized sub human fanatical extremists would purposely and continually target Israeli civilians, but that's precisely what Hamas does to the tune of thousands and thousands of rockets and mortar shells at a the legitimate country of Israel.

It is quite simply not to be accepted. NO OTHER COUNTRY would put up with constant daily attacks on its citizens.

Hamas by it's own determination as a rogue and terrorist organization deserves to be targeted for response and TO STOP THE CONSTANT ATTACKS ON ISRAEL

There can be no doubt of the HAMAS agenda. Attack-provoke-kill Israelis-Jews -eradicate Israel- Anyone expecting Israel (or any other country) to sit back and ignore daily attacks on its citizens must be totally insane in my opinion.

http://www.guardian....srael-no-choice

Excerpt: More at link.

"

Hamas leaves Israel no choice

Israel will not allow the lives of its citizens to be endangered. If only Gaza's leaders felt the same, writes Israel's deputy minister of foreign affairs

• 
  

• 
  
  • 
    Danny Ayalon
    
  • The Guardian, Monday 19 November 2012 20.15 GMT
    

Citizens of Nitzan, southern Israel, take cover in a concrete tube during a rocket attack from Gaza, on 19 November. Photograph: Ahikam Seri/AP

Hamas's charter includes the aspiration that "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews)". While many concentrate on its death-cult worship, its bloodthirsty killing of adversaries, or its contempt for women, Christians and homosexuals, it is this aspiration for genocide that is at the root of Hamas activities. This is the primary reason why Hamas, the governing regime in Gaza, will never recognise or accept a peace accord with Israel in any form.

Since Israel left Gaza in 2005, thousands of rockets have rained down on Israeli cities and towns in deliberate contravention not just of international law, but all humanity and morality. While some might suggest the so-called blockade is the cause of the attacks, it is actually a consequence. The restrictions were only implemented two years after Israel left Gaza, when it was clear that instead of building a "Singapore of the Middle East", Hamas was interested in importing stockpiles of weapons from places like Iran. Instead of building a future for its people, Hamas built an open-air prison for the million and a half inhabitants who fell into its grasp.

[Guest Peeves]

"since January 2009. About 1,400 rockets have been fired at Israeli towns." That justifies a response!

[bleeding heart]

Of course Hamas are rotten. I agree 100%, without qualification. In fact, they're about as bad as an organized leadership gets, in my view.

But of course, Israel is also a murderous, rogue state.

In terms of these ongoing debates, there is one chief difference; only the so-called Supporters of Israel are positively bloodthirsty about the matter; on one of the threads in The Rest of the World" forums, we've got two posters openly wishing for hostilities to continue, rather than to cease.

It's very amusing for them, evidently.

So the last thing they wish is for Hamas to behave itself. No Palestnian civilians dead means no more jollies.

Edited November 20, 2012 by bleeding heart

[Moonlight Graham]

“Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich.”

- Peter Ustinov

I agree Hamas and the rockets are immoral and uncivilized, but so are continually building new settlements to expand territory that isn't yours, amid other things.

This region is the butthole of hate in the solar system. I hope global warming makes Israel/Gaza/West Bank/Golan Heights become flooded and sink into the Mediterranean so nobody can have it.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Moonlight Graham

[Guest American Woman]

This region is the butthole of hate in the solar system. I hope global warming makes Israel/Gaza/West Bank/Golan Heights become flooded and sink into the Mediterranean so nobody can have it.

If that's the way you feel about it, why do you even care? Why do you waste your time on it?

[Moonlight Graham]

If that's the way you feel about it, why do you even care? Why do you waste your time on it?

I try not to spend that much time thinking about it. I keep up with the news out of habit but not much else. I care about the people who suffer, especially those not as responsible for the violence and hate, but at the same time there are many conflicts & causes of suffering happening in the world that deserve as much or more attention. Who ends up with what I don't really care at the end of the day as it's none of my business really.

It's also fun to debate things LOL.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Moonlight Graham

[Guest Peeves]

"but so are continually building new settlements to expand territory that isn't yours, amid other things."

Disputed territory. There are dozens of disputed territories on earth. Building new settlements is certainly a debatable issue, but rockets and mortars fired by the thousands is not.

Any building employs Arabs, becomes negotiable for truce, is on captured land, does not kill anyone, HARDLY equivalent morally to the attacking of Israelis- Jews in their country.

There is no way that your comparison is viz a viz of the references you present. As to your contention..."This region is the butthole of hate in the solar system."

A simplification by those that are ignorant of the history, deny the facts of it's evolution and that seem to choose to ignore who repeatedly initiates the violence and..their mandate - charter.

Hamas initiates attack, eventually Israel responds as surgically as possible.

Fools sit back and qualify outright attacks by the thousands on a sovereign nation by denigrating the victim. That's the same as blaming a victim for a rape or expecting them to accept it as their due.

Firing thousands of missiles at civilians cannot be justified, it's totally absolutely unequivocally debased behavior. Those attempting to qualify or quantify or taking on a role of apologist for the attacker are pretty much as depraved in their judgment.

Want Israel to stop responding, building, simply grant them assurance of peace and continued existence.

If Israel simply accepts attacks, Israel is eradicated. If Arabs stop their attempt and decree of another Holocaust they will have a state as they where offered a generation ago

Those as you that consider both parties as equal are hardly competent or knowledgeable enough on the middle East/Israel/ Arabs to opine say I.

But go ahead spew your silly comments for what they are worth. Meantime, the reality of the situation is clearly one for condemnation of terrorists launching attacks at civilians in a free democratic country. Those attacking being radical terrorists that think nothing of putting launching platforms in mosques or amongst families. Those attacking think nothing of executing their own Arab citizens, Fatah members at that.

I have little respect for the opinion of any that try to condemn the victim with agitprop and the like.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Peeves

[jbg]

But of course, Israel is also a murderous, rogue state.

Do you really think that if the "Palestinians" stopped fighting Israel would have any interest in killing more of them?

In terms of these ongoing debates, there is one chief difference; only the so-called Supporters of Israel are positively bloodthirsty about the matter; on one of the threads in The Rest of the World" forums, we've got two posters openly wishing for hostilities to continue, rather than to cease.

It's very amusing for them, evidently.

So the last thing they wish is for Hamas to behave itself. No Palestnian civilians dead means no more jollies.

No, we don't want to kill Palestinian civilians. We want the fighting to stop. Egypt, Jordan and Syria made a very serious mistake in provoking the 1967 War. Time to get over it.

“Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich.”

- Peter Ustinov

I agree Hamas and the rockets are immoral and uncivilized, but so are continually building new settlements to expand territory that isn't yours, amid other things.

Israel dismantled all of its Gaza settlements when it left in 2005.

This region is the butthole of hate in the solar system. I hope global warming makes Israel/Gaza/West Bank/Golan Heights become flooded and sink into the Mediterranean so nobody can have it.

Feel the love.

[The_Squid]

Do you really think that if the "Palestinians" stopped fighting Israel would have any interest in killing more of them?

No. Israel would like to keep evicting people and occupying their land without the hassle of people fighting back....

[Guest American Woman]

I try not to spend that much time thinking about it. I keep up with the news out of habit but not much else. I care about the people who suffer, especially those not as responsible for the violence and hate, but at the same time there are many conflicts & causes of suffering happening in the world that deserve as much or more attention. Who ends up with what I don't really care at the end of the day as it's none of my business really.

It's also fun to debate things LOL.

This is pretty serious business, and it affects a lot of people's lives - as we sit here posting about it. I would hope that we don't see it as "entertainment." What a horrible mindset.

As for it being none of our business, do you truly believe that? - what goes on in the world, the atrocities, are "none of our business?" With an attitude like that, progress would be all but impossible. Often times it's the outside world's involvement/opinion that turns things around.

Furthermore, there's plenty of "hate" on our planet - Israel-Palestine (or as you put it, singling out all of Israel along with Gaza/West Bank/Golan Heights) are hardly the "butthole of hate," and to present it as such just confirms the undue attention/expectations/standards some have regarding this conflict. Furthermore, it's a pretty serious allegation coming from someone who admittedly tries not to spend that much time thinking about it. How does one draw such a conclusion without giving it a lot of thought?

It's one thing not to care, not to want to spend too much time thinking about it. It's quite another to make such an outrageous, biased judgement - and yes, it is biased. I'm sure you're not unaware of the atrocities and hate and death and violence that have gone on and/or are going on in other parts of the world at this time. Yet you make this judgement regarding Israel/Gaza/West Bank/Golan Heights.

[Topaz]

In my view as long as Israel and Palestine have their military supporters, the killings will go on. Countries can't go on supplies weapons to these two countries and then turn around and say they must stop the fighting.

[Guest Peeves]

No. Israel would like to keep evicting people and occupying their land without the hassle of people fighting back....

Evicting people from any Arab lands has really been the modus operandi of Hamas.Any supporter of their other political party..Fatah, was murdered or run out of the Gaza.

Any territory that Israel holds as disputable, the Golan or West Bank, are negotiable and you might recall, were taken in war when the Arabs attempted to eradicate Israel. Why has Israel any obligation to return them UNCONDITIONALLY! ?

Additionally, most Jew /Israeli haters and critics choose to ignore that Arabs are employed in the building of any Israeli structure in thev West Bank. That Arabs living in the West Bank are in better conditions than their brothers and sisters in other Islamic countries. The West Bank is certainly negotiable in any realistic peace initiative.

On the other hand.

The continued existence of Israel IS unacceptable in the mandates of HAMAS, Hezbollah and Iran in outspoken threat.

In the same conditions/circumstances, only a fool and apologist for terrorists would suggest a unilateral appeasement of the critics by leaving the disputed territory.

However the ignorant are free to opine.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Peeves

[Guest Peeves]

In my view as long as Israel and Palestine have their military supporters, the killings will go on. Countries can't go on supplies weapons to these two countries and then turn around and say they must stop the fighting.

While a truism, that position ignores the fact that those initiating civilian attacks in the thousands are the Hamas terrorists, and that Israel responds as surgically as possible. Those critical of Israels responses offer no suggestion as to just how Israel should react to thousands of attacks on civilians???

NO country would accept such attacks from immoral depraved terrorist sub humans.

[DogOnPorch]

Who says these Jewish settlers can't be hard working citizens in a future West Bank state?

[Guest Peeves]

" Hamas the immoral depraved and uncivilized, blood thirsty regime in The Gaza.

"Hamas's charter includes the aspiration that "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews)". While many concentrate on its death-cult worship, its bloodthirsty killing of adversaries, or its contempt for women, Christians and homosexuals, it is this aspiration for genocide that is at the root of Hamas activities. This is the primary reason why Hamas, the governing regime in Gaza, will never recognise or accept a peace accord with Israel in any form."

These are the elected, the re-pressers, the murderers, the terrorists that some support as representing Arabs, Gazans, Their supporters must be proud.

I wonder if they are aware that many of the missiles fired at Israeli civilians fail and fall on the Arabs in Gaza?

Edited November 21, 2012 by Peeves

[Guest Peeves]

Who says these Jewish settlers can't be hard working citizens in a future West Bank state?

They could.

There are a million plus Arab citizens living in Israel with equal rights. I wonder if an Arab state was formed, would they also allow Jews to live free and equal in their country?

[DogOnPorch]

They could.

There are a million plus Arab citizens living in Israel with equal rights. I wonder if an Arab state was formed, would they also allow Jews to live free and equal in their country?

It seems to me that the anti-Israel crowd expects a Judenfrei WB by default. I wonder how their ancestors arrived in NA?

[Guest Peeves]

This is pretty serious business, and it affects a lot of people's lives - as we sit here posting about it. I would hope that we don't see it as "entertainment." What a horrible mindset.

As for it being none of our business, do you truly believe that? - what goes on in the world, the atrocities, are "none of our business?" With an attitude like that, progress would be all but impossible. Often times it's the outside world's involvement/opinion that turns things around.

Furthermore, there's plenty of "hate" on our planet - Israel-Palestine (or as you put it, singling out all of Israel along with Gaza/West Bank/Golan Heights) are hardly the "butthole of hate," and to present it as such just confirms the undue attention/expectations/standards some have regarding this conflict. Furthermore, it's a pretty serious allegation coming from someone who admittedly tries not to spend that much time thinking about it. How does one draw such a conclusion without giving it a lot of thought?

It's one thing not to care, not to want to spend too much time thinking about it. It's quite another to make such an outrageous, biased judgement - and yes, it is biased. I'm sure you're not unaware of the atrocities and hate and death and violence that have gone on and/or are going on in other parts of the world at this time. Yet you make this judgement regarding Israel/Gaza/West Bank/Golan Heights.

There are dozens of occupied disputable territories in the world. Some before the UN for disposition, yet we only hear of Israel. The lives of Muslims in many countries are far more restrictive than those in the West Bank.

Hamas is a depraved dictatorial regime of oppressors,murderers and terrorist that commonly murder any critics.

Those that excuse them on any pretext are simply ignorant apologist pawns that seem to just hate Jews on any pretext.

[Guest Peeves]

Possible letter to Hamas?

Dear Gazan Arab Hamas elected government of the Gaza.

Your intentions with regard to the security of our sovereign nation seems apparent given the thousands of unjustified, illegal and terrorist attacks on our citizens.

Given that conclusion, we are required by moral obligation to apprise your membership and citizens that, Israel will protect itself from attacks from without and within to the degree deemed appropriate to the situation.

Therefore. If an attack, to wit, a rocket,missile,mortar shell or other harmful devise be directed at our people (both Arab and Jew, Christian etc., we will respond.

Please advise your residents that any site used for such purpose or intention by storage of weapons, or the firing of same, will be targeted in kind.

Therefore, any that may be in such location are advised to move as they would be unfortunate an unintended collateral targets.

Pleased be further advised that if an attack on our citizens is determined to be from a specific location, a response will certainly take place, with the destruction of that location.

Pleased be advised that any and all subsequent attacks will be responded to similarly.

We recognize that there are determined terrorists within the Gaza. We left Gaza (2005) to its residents and have shown patience with the near immediate attacks from the Gaza residents. We waited two years before instituting a blockade having determined that military equipment was being transported for terrorist use against our citizens.

Unfortunately our responses to date seem to have been summarily disregarded.

The thousands of attacks on our citizens cannot any longer be allowed and we therefore will protect our borders. Day by day, night by night, as we are attacked we will use a measured response until such attacks cease or there are no other targets for our returning fire.

We will patrol our border with military personnel to ensure none scamper into the state of Israel proper.

In such case others, as the Egyptians may be similarly be inclined to restricting evacuations into their countries. Alternatively you may wish to assemble a armada of rescue boats to flee unto the sea.

That is of course that such attacks on our citizenry continues to that END!

Yours sincerely,

Israel

[guyser]

They could.

There are a million plus Arab citizens living in Israel with equal rights.

Not really. The Courts themselves have said as much.

[Guest Peeves]

Not really. The Courts themselves have said as much.

The courts include Arabs.

[Guest Peeves]

"since January 2009. About 1,400 rockets have been fired at Israeli towns." That justifies a response!

Since the start of 2012, 797 rockets have been fired from Gaza, forcing approximately one million Israelis in towns across the south to flee to their nearest bomb shelter, with as little as 15 seconds to react. The number of rockets fired increases to over 5,000 since 2006.

[guyser]

The courts include Arabs.

ok.

Then you dont refute they are not treated equally as the courts themselves have said.

Good.

[guyser]

dp

Edited November 21, 2012 by guyser

[Canuckistani]

Since the start of 2012, 797 rockets have been fired from Gaza, forcing approximately one million Israelis in towns across the south to flee to their nearest bomb shelter, with as little as 15 seconds to react. The number of rockets fired increases to over 5,000 since 2006.

How many settlements have been built or expanded, forcing Palestinians off their land? How is that any more acceptable?