Supply Management & the Death of the federal Liberals

[August1991]

"We must have the courage to stop trying to be everything to everyone, but stand for what is right. Only then will we gain people's trust and confidence."

"For the Liberal Party to show that kind of courage, it needs to have its own courageous leadership."

"A perfect example is supply management (dairy, poultry and eggs). It was clear that a major research paper calling for the dismantling of supply management was risky for a politician. True enough. But it was also the right thing to do, and the reaction, all across the country, urban and rural, has been extraordinary. Except for a few politicians (not a surprise) and the dairy lobby (even less of a surprise), it has been universally positive."

Huffington Post

So writes Martha Hall Findlay, candidate for leader of the federal Liberal Party.

Well Ms Findlay, if I wanted to vote for the Conservatives, I would vote for Mr Harper. And even Mr Harper is slow to reject supply management.

-----

Several years ago, we had politicians such as Pierre Trudeau or Brian Mulroney who had the political courage to make radical changes, and then face the electorate. (Mulroney was more successful than Trudeau in facing voters with a controversial policy.)

Nowadays, we have incremental, conservative, step-by-step Stephen Harper.

Ms Findlay, you're no Pierre Trudeau. And when it comes to radical change won through a democratic vote, Trudeau was no Brian Mulroney.

-----

Eugene Whelan, a federal Liberal, created supply management. As a result of this federal policy, Canadians now pay over $10/kilogram for domestic cheese and have no diversity. While the rest of the world enjoys a tremendous variety of cheese at lower cost, we Canadians live in a Soviet world of domestic blandness: cheddar, cheddar, mozzarella, brick, cheddar.

-----

Martha Hall Findlay, on such a small point, I applaud your desire to change the harm that you federal Liberals have caused to cheese-eaters as myself. But I think that you are late to the game, and I wonder whether you (or your colleague Trudeau Junior) even understand the game.

PS. Under federal supply management, about 50% of Canada's milk is produced in Quebec.

Edited November 19, 2012 by August1991

[Sleipnir]

When the Gods Changed, the Death of Liberal Canada

http://books.google....ved=0CD4Q6AEwBQ

^^^ A good read. I highly recommend it.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Sleipnir

[Topaz]

I don't don't think the Liberal party will die any time soon. Just today on the radio, report said that the Liberal party is on a come back,( I know Harper and his gang, don't want to hear that), so is the change to the party, with more younger people getting involved. All parties will have to change with the times. I think its safe to say, in the court of public opinion, the Conservatives have had their time and now either the NDP or the Liberals will be in the PMO in the next election, because as always, we voters get tired of the same party being in the PMO and want change..

[Moonbox]

Topaz what's the point you're trying to make here? Findlay is very clearly trying to explain how political pandering towards special interests is ultimately bad public policy. Sometimes you actually have to make difficult decisions and sometimes those decisions will be unpopular to specific groups. Dalton McGuinty, for example, finally started understanding this, but far far too late.

[PIK]

Dairy farmers have had it made for some time, pretty well makes you a millionaire if you are not brain dead. I am surround by small dairy farms and they are living quite fine. I never counted out the libs, they will make a come back, but when is the question and that is up to who they pick and justin is not the answer at this time, martha caught my eye a while back. As long as the libs pay attention and not just put justin in, they could have a real chance at a good leader that can take .....them ...all...... the...... waaaay.

[Guest]

Eugene Whelan, a federal Liberal, created supply management. As a result of this federal policy, Canadians now pay over $10/kilogram for domestic cheese and have no diversity. While the rest of the world enjoys a tremendous variety of cheese at lower cost, we Canadians live in a Soviet world of domestic blandness: cheddar, cheddar, mozzarella, brick, cheddar.

You can get some pretty decent cheeses in Edmonton, at a few locations.

Granted, they're a bit expensive, but then if they weren't, I'd be a couple of hundred pounds heavier.

[Moonbox]

$8.60 for a block of plain 'ol cheddar at the grocery store here. That's insane, and there's no defending it. People complain about our telecom industry and how we're getting the broomstick up the butthole there, but the dairy industry is no better.

[August1991]

Topaz what's the point you're trying to make here? Findlay is very clearly trying to explain how political pandering towards special interests is ultimately bad public policy. Sometimes you actually have to make difficult decisions and sometimes those decisions will be unpopular to specific groups. Dalton McGuinty, for example, finally started understanding this, but far far too late.

But pandering to special interests is what Liberals have done for ages. Trudeau described the Liberals as the party of the "radical middle". He expressly left the NDP and joined the Liberals because he wanted to use the Liberal brand name (or pragmatic ability to win elections) to advance his theory of federalism.

I dunno. Maybe, like Trudeau, Hall Findlay has some ulterior motive. But "supply management"?

No, I reckon that when a federal Liberal candidate abandons a core constituency and tries to argue that the Liberals must have "costly principles", then the federal Liberal Party has become a farce, a Klown Kar.

[dre]

But pandering to special interests is what Liberals have done for ages.

Yup. Them and every other political party on the planet.

[August1991]

$8.60 for a block of plain 'ol cheddar at the grocery store here. That's insane, and there's no defending it. People complain about our telecom industry and how we're getting the broomstick up the butthole there, but the dairy industry is no better.

Make no mistake, Moonbox, I completely agree with you. $10/kilo (on sale) is ridiculous but the worst is that we have no choice in our cheeses: cheddar, cheddar, old fort, mozarella. Elsewhere in the world, cheese has many colours and tastes but because of Canadian supply management, we have no choice at all.

-----

Nevertheless, for a credible federal Liberal leadership candidate to suggest that we drop supply management, I can only conclude that the Liberals are no longer sophisticated politicians.

To rid ourselves of supply management will require a much better poker player.

Edited November 23, 2012 by August1991

[Moonbox]

August please explain. From the articles I've read, there is maybe ~10-15,000 dairy farmers in all of Canada. Why pander them, especially at the visible detriment of the entire RoC? The rural vote is almost entirely Conservative too, so if small dairy farmers are voting Liberal, it's not getting them anywhere. Dismantling the Wheat Board was a great idea, but why don't the Cons blow up the Dairy Board too? It's an intellectually bankrupt concept and costs us all a little money.

[Guest]

Make no mistake, Moonbox, I completely agree with you. $10/kilo (on sale) is ridiculous but the worst is that we have no choice in our cheeses: cheddar, cheddar, old fort, mozarella. Elsewhere in the world, cheese has many colours and tastes but because of Canadian supply management, we have no choice at all.

I have to say I have difficulty believing you can't get decent cheese in Montreal. Most of the decent cheeses I buy in Edmonton come from Quebec.

Edit> Although it might well be that I don't know a decent cheese from a hole in the ground. They do have long, french sounding names though.

Edited November 23, 2012 by bcsapper

[Moonbox]

We don't know decent cheeses here. The more I read about this the angrier I get.

[Sleipnir]

The more I read about this the angrier I get.

Angry about cheese?

[Newfoundlander]

Wanting to give families more money is so conservative.

[Newfoundlander]

Dairy farmers have had it made for some time, pretty well makes you a millionaire if you are not brain dead. I am surround by small dairy farms and they are living quite fine. I never counted out the libs, they will make a come back, but when is the question and that is up to who they pick and justin is not the answer at this time, martha caught my eye a while back. As long as the libs pay attention and not just put justin in, they could have a real chance at a good leader that can take .....them ...all...... the...... waaaay.

Her whole point has been that dairy farmers are now very well off because of supply management, unlike years ago. Hall Findlay has said supply management was a good policy, but it has now outlived its original purpose.

[Newfoundlander]

But pandering to special interests is what Liberals have done for ages. Trudeau described the Liberals as the party of the "radical middle". He expressly left the NDP and joined the Liberals because he wanted to use the Liberal brand name (or pragmatic ability to win elections) to advance his theory of federalism.

I dunno. Maybe, like Trudeau, Hall Findlay has some ulterior motive. But "supply management"?

No, I reckon that when a federal Liberal candidate abandons a core constituency and tries to argue that the Liberals must have "costly principles", then the federal Liberal Party has become a farce, a Klown Kar.

I think this whole comment sums you up perfectly.

[August1991]

August please explain. From the articles I've read, there is maybe ~10-15,000 dairy farmers in all of Canada. Why pander them, especially at the visible detriment of the entire RoC? The rural vote is almost entirely Conservative too, so if small dairy farmers are voting Liberal, it's not getting them anywhere. Dismantling the Wheat Board was a great idea, but why don't the Cons blow up the Dairy Board too? It's an intellectually bankrupt concept and costs us all a little money.

Have you noticed how Harper dismantled the the Wheat Board? It will take far more patience, and legerdemain, to dismantle Supply Management.

I have to say I have difficulty believing you can't get decent cheese in Montreal. Most of the decent cheeses I buy in Edmonton come from Quebec.

Federal trade barriers (supply management) mean that only 2% of cheese consumed in Canada is imported. This is true in Montreal, Edmonton or Tickle-My-Bouche, Nfld.

I think this whole comment sums you up perfectly.

Newfoundlander, can you elaborate?

Wanting to give families more money is so conservative.

Which families are you talking about? Families who buy cheese (and generally don't vote) or families who have dairy cows (and are organized)?

----

Once upon a time, Liberal leaders had political skills. Apparently, no longer.

Nowadays, a Liberal leadership race is a Klown Kar Konvention.

Edited November 24, 2012 by August1991

[Newfoundlander]

Supply management doesn't just effect cheese, it effects chicken, turkey, eggs and milk prices, which should be essential in everyone's diet. Did you even bother to read Martha Hall Fondlay's research paper on the topic or are you just criticizing her without bothering to get your facts straight?

Here's the article, I suggest you read it. http://www.policyschool.ucalgary.ca/sites/default/files/research/m-hall-findlay-supply-mgnt-final.pdf

[August1991]

Supply management doesn't just effect cheese, it effects chicken, turkey, eggs and milk prices, which should be essential in everyone's diet. Did you even bother to read Martha Hall Fondlay's research paper on the topic or are you just criticizing her without bothering to get your facts straight?

To be honest, I only flipped through her paper.

(I prefer the Fraser Institute: Link)

-----

Nflder, the issue is not whether Martha Hall Findlay's policy proposal is right or wrong. The issue is whether she has the political sophistication to implement what she proposes. You and I both follow politics and know that Martha Hall Findlay will not be the next leader of the federal Liberal Party. Whatever you conclude, I conclude that she's a fool.

Most Canadians, vaguely interested in politics, simply see a federal Liberal Klown Kar.

As I say, once upon a time, federal Liberals were political sophisticates. Nowadays, they're amateurs.

Edited November 24, 2012 by August1991

[Newfoundlander]

I don't know if she'll be the next leader or not, at the moment I'd say she's in third place so she has a lot of work to do. Why is she a fool exactly?

[August1991]

I don't know if she'll be the next leader or not, at the moment I'd say she's in third place so she has a lot of work to do.

Don't be coy. As a Liberal, you know that she won't win. And you also know that she makes your party look foolish.

Why is she a fool exactly?

Martha Hall Findlay is a fool because she is trying to change public policy, without any understanding of politics.

-----

For people who don't follow politics, the perception is that the federal Liberals are now a Klown Kar, with loud hair.

Edited November 26, 2012 by August1991

[Newfoundlander]

I'm not a Liberal so I don't know if she can win or not, Trudeau has a huge lead but so has many.

Don't be coy. As a Liberal, you know that she won't win.

Martha Hall Findlay is a fool because she is trying to change public policy, without any understanding of politics.

-----

For people who don't follow politics, the perception is that the federal Liberals are now a Klown Kar, with loud hair.

I'm not a Liberal so I don't know if she can win or not, Trudeau has a huge lead but so have many front runners.

So why doesn't understand politics exactly, because she supports a policy you have little to know understanding about?

[Smallc]

To be honest, I only flipped through her paper.

(I prefer the Fraser Institute: Link)

Yes, I also prefer regularly being lied to.

[August1991]

I'm not a Liberal so I don't know if she can win or not, Trudeau has a huge lead but so have many front runners.

Huh? I happen to think that you're a Newfoundland federal Liberal: from Smallwood to Wells, a defendable breed, even Crosbie was once among you.

Almost by definition, like in Quebec, a Newfoundlander who puts his lot with Canada is a Liberal.

----

I know that we should rid ourselves of "supply management" but I also know that it will be difficult to do this.

IMHO, in public policy matters, there are two approaches: the radical, crazy change (based on charisma), or the slow, dirty (boring) incrementalism. IOW, we have revolutionary Leftists or conservative Right Wingers.

Martha Hall Findlay is no charismatic, radical. Yet, she proposes changing supply management during a leadership campaign. IOW, she's an amateur.

As to Trudeau Jnr, he may be charismatic, but he spouts nonsense like his mother. Maybe he should hire a better teleprompter.

IOW, the federal Liberal Party is dead; only amateurs, or namesakes, seek its leadership.

Yes, I also prefer regularly being lied to.

Smallc, don't be so partisan. You are smarter than that.

----

PS. Note to Parizeau and his wife: I suspect that a federal Canada will survive the death of the Liberal Party.

Edited November 26, 2012 by August1991